Cleric or Paladin on Green

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Every spaz kittens tagged dude you drag down there and rez just fucking yeets off and dies as they cant handle being told to not move.

lmao this was a great post and then this at the end made it 10/10

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sometimes I think he is trolling...but yikes.

Yikes to your frequent bad takes and misinfo. You completely failed to address the points I wrote, because you are wrong and have no argument.

Factually, if you don't want to risk dying, you can not Lull an otherwise unwinnable camp with a Cleric. The risk is extremely relevant if ever playing the game without port bots and alts stacked everywhere, aka anybody who is new to a server or simply wants to play in their own way. Death will frequently mean wasting a LONG time getting back to camp or outright losing the camp.

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No other clerics were running around lguk soloing all nameds, not even most duo's were. Alts stacked with guises etc as you could solo that shit late at night while no people had a list toon in zone.

You benefited from playing late at night. Not because you were doing anything special. Any other Cleric who knows what they're doing can do the same thing with -20 Charisma, +20 Wisdom. You don't magically have all your Lulls working with +20 Charisma. All you're getting is a 4% increased chance, while having less mana to work with for the harder pulls. There are definitely times you died from Lull failing, and who knows how many of those times you would have lived if you had more mana.

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Made a shitload of plat just being mobile enough to get through CT, guk, solb, sola etc for rezzes that others couldn't.

Again, 20 CHA doesn't suddenly make it possible to move through those places with no risk. You will still fail at times and any other Cleric with decent CHA can potentially do the same thing.

This is why it's sometimes better to use Root + camp if you're a new char without a GCD clicky, particularly in actual Classic EQ when Lull was resisted a lot more and Channeling was less effective. When you open with Root you're gaining more time, instead of starting to cast Root after the Lull failed, while MOBs are rushing at you. Even with a GCD clicky there's still a bit of delay.

Lull is a gamble, and in actual classic it would essentially never work for trying to dungeon crawl through non-green cons. You'd pretty much always get a crit failure after 1 room at most. That's why people back in the day were so envious of Druids/Rangers using Harmony in the zones where they could - because it actually worked.

The Guk example is not too relevant for playing p99 right now either. Sure when Green launched it was highly lucrative to just live there. Bind at the zoneline and reduce the downside of dying. But in Velious it's ideal to bind in Plane of Mischief (hard to access the zone otherwise + quick access to other Velious zones), and you generally don't want to be changing that bind. Or in Kunark era when you're bound at the pots you probably won't want to give that up, and it's always a significant run during Kunark era to get back to most dungeons, since you can't port directly to EJ or SF.

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh also since the 7min pacify stealth ninja patch shortly after green launched, mana free Donals pacify is massive compared to an enchanter using 80% mana to pac a whole room sometimes.

The days of calm spam long gone mostly.

This is a great point

Pally soothe arms are also legit

It's laughably OP to have click free pacify spells. That bracer still sells for 8-9k on Green. It's that good.

[Rimitto]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wizard isn’t a dps class.

the hell it's not? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
literally what the hell else do they do?
pretty sure you're screwing with me on this one cause, if the forums really don't think wizards are dps, then just.... dammmmmmmmnnn
site needs to be purged with fire, wizard fire. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Insaiyan]

Imagine being a newer player trying to discern this thread.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Rimitto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the hell it's not? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
literally what the hell else do they do?
pretty sure you're screwing with me on this one cause, if the forums really don't think wizards are dps, then just.... dammmmmmmmnnn
site needs to be purged with fire, wizard fire. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a wizard. Fairly recently hit 60 so I remember at least some of the grind. However, do understand I am a terrible wizard player. Rincewind. Take my anecdotes with salt.

Wizards aren’t dps. They aren’t much tbh. Their best spell is root, but have a couple of tactical stuns loaded too. Snare and harvest I keep memmed. A damage absorb is helpful. Maybe mem one nuke. The last slot is flavour - eyeball, maybe rain. Sometimes I even load the top up ds if there is no competing buffs. Basically wizards are bottom tier CC BUT they still do that better than dps.

Why aren’t they dps? Dps is a measure of sustained damage and the damage they can do vs medtime is not good. With bard, c2 and potG that isn’t the case neither is it the case in AoE groups, but those are exceptional circumstances. Not even nuke robe or a mana free pet will help tbh.

But what about their big fast casting nukes? Well, wizards do okay at instantaneous damage or bursts, but I don’t consider this dps. This is more like something they can do every 15 mins or so if you have been frugal with mana. It can be very helpful, but it isn’t really dps. It is just CC by elimination.

Anyway, thats how I see wizard in a groupcontext. On a raid boss they can dps okay, but I’ve found melee kill bosses fine so it is better to save mana for TL to pivot fast to next boss (i’m most likely to raid if i have free time and it is a quake).

Ymmv

Edit: i also wanted to throw in a hot take cos imo suggesting wiz in a clr vs pal thread is in itself an irrelevant hottake.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a wizard. Fairly recently hit 60 so I remember at least some of the grind. However, do understand I am a terrible wizard player. Rincewind. Take my anecdotes with salt.

Wizards aren’t dps. They aren’t much tbh. Their best spell is root, but have a couple of tactical stuns loaded too. Snare and harvest I keep memmed. A damage absorb is helpful. Maybe mem one nuke. The last slot is flavour - eyeball, maybe rain. Sometimes I even load the top up ds if there is no competing buffs. Basically wizards are bottom tier CC BUT they still do that better than dps.

Why aren’t they dps? Dps is a measure of sustained damage and the damage they can do vs medtime is not good. With bard, c2 and potG that isn’t the case neither is it the case in AoE groups, but those are exceptional circumstances. Not even nuke robe or a mana free pet will help tbh.

But what about their big fast casting nukes? Well, wizards do okay at instantaneous damage or bursts, but I don’t consider this dps. This is more like something they can do every 15 mins or so if you have been frugal with mana. It can be very helpful, but it isn’t really dps. It is just CC by elimination.

Anyway, thats how I see wizard in a groupcontext. On a raid boss they can dps okay, but I’ve found melee kill bosses fine so it is better to save mana for TL to pivot fast to next boss (i’m most likely to raid if i have free time and it is a quake).

Ymmv

Edit: i also wanted to throw in a hot take cos imo suggesting wiz in a clr vs pal thread is in itself an irrelevant hottake.

Nah their best spell is TL Box.

And:

[Jimjam]

Not used TL much in groups, but tldr I did agree TL is their best raid spell.

[Rimitto]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a wizard. Fairly recently hit 60 so I remember at least some of the grind. However, do understand I am a terrible wizard player. Rincewind. Take my anecdotes with salt.

Wizards aren’t dps. They aren’t much tbh. Their best spell is root, but have a couple of tactical stuns loaded too. Snare and harvest I keep memmed. A damage absorb is helpful. Maybe mem one nuke. The last slot is flavour - eyeball, maybe rain. Sometimes I even load the top up ds if there is no competing buffs. Basically wizards are bottom tier CC BUT they still do that better than dps.

Why aren’t they dps? Dps is a measure of sustained damage and the damage they can do vs medtime is not good. With bard, c2 and potG that isn’t the case neither is it the case in AoE groups, but those are exceptional circumstances. Not even nuke robe or a mana free pet will help tbh.

But what about their big fast casting nukes? Well, wizards do okay at instantaneous damage or bursts, but I don’t consider this dps. This is more like something they can do every 15 mins or so if you have been frugal with mana. It can be very helpful, but it isn’t really dps. It is just CC by elimination.

Anyway, thats how I see wizard in a groupcontext. On a raid boss they can dps okay, but I’ve found melee kill bosses fine so it is better to save mana for TL to pivot fast to next boss (i’m most likely to raid if i have free time and it is a quake).

Ymmv

Edit: i also wanted to throw in a hot take cos imo suggesting wiz in a clr vs pal thread is in itself an irrelevant hottake.

okay so you're saying wizard is a sucky dps... but my point is that it's not a healing role, it's not a puller, it's definitely not a tank, it's barely crowd control I guess?
I honestly don't know wizard all that much, other than that they have a lot of nukes, and AOE nukes, and some teleport spells. That screams DPS to me. Maybe elemental DPS, but DPS is still DPS, even if it's shitty DPS.
I know they get that 2k dmg anti-dragon spell at 60 too.

besides, I did say if they were going to choose between cleric and paladin, to go paladin. Everyone else is just latching onto the fact that I said there weren't enough wizards.

[Duik]

Didnt read The Bots response yet. This aughta be good though.