Player Agreement: Rule Change at the DS Camp

[Duik]

Jesus Haytch Christ.

[berbax]

Originally Posted by Lynch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I aint going to read the whole thread so bare with me if some of this has already gone over.

There's a lot of conflicting requests in OP. The content is trivial, yet when you had the camp and were 'pressured' into clearing the room (which, on blue, is the rule to maintain camp) and you had to cap. You want to solo content, but play an mmo. You're a 'solo artist' but refuse to suffer for your art.

What do you think is going to happen if the rule gets turned into rolls? "Hey guys I just want to solo her, you can log off" sorry that happened recently on blue, and that guild got SUCH a stern warning.

If you want to solo her as an achievement, fine, but being unable and unwilling to cooperate with others to help you achieve that goal (like many others camping ds) isnt what everquest is about (unless it's due to time and availability, and it's your last piece, then it's grats bladefrenzy.) You might want to look into switching your guild or earn social credit with others to help you achieve this goal.


As a rebuttal to your claims:


You're right camping non stop is unhealthy, probably why you should have friends and cooperate by rotating for breaks.


Cant say for green but the only way to counter this is to beat them at their own game, maneuver around them, and dont cause conflict.


At least on blue, when the current occupant gets their drop then they should rotate to the next in line. Can they lie and say they never get an urn? yes but that would be fraud and bannable under pnp, if you think that could be the case I'm sure guides would love to intermittently sleuth on drops.


'May' is the key word here, do you have evidence of this RMTing? It is a rare and valuable drop, like many other raid obtained droppable gear. What evidence is there that this won't make the price worse? Head of Skargus MQ is last listed at 125k on green and it's a prereq for urn turn in.


We went over this, it's not trivial, you capped out, you've stated that groups have wiped multiple times to just continually clearing the room.

Thanks for your input, sorry but many of these points have been discussed in great detail so I likely won't go over them again. I will say "trivial" meaning, anyone with 1-2 friends can do this, a solo artist has it on a hard difficulty for a reason.

[berbax]

Update on the Situation:

I’m currently taking a closer look at Blue’s URN system and speaking with them to gather more details. This system may serve as an alternative to the /random system, which seems to have worked out for them. Based on the feedback so far, many (not all) of the "No" votes appear to come from the following groups:

1. GG players involved in the DS camp.
2. Urn sellers (likely associated with GG, though it’s hard to confirm).
3. Members of Blue’s URN group who don’t want to see changes that could impact their system.
4. Unknowns, including some new accounts that were recently created for the forums. There's even one that looks like it might be a bot account voting.

Given the interest in not disrupting Blue’s system (and considering that the URN setup on Blue seems to align with efforts Kingdom has tried to implement), I’ll be investigating this further. I’ll update here with more information as I learn more.

[rjw513]

Cool, tysm for making Norrath a better world

Can a 60 Paladin with ec gear break into HS ent, maybe even solo a few in the easy wings?

[zelld52]

Welp now every raid target is DS rules. See what ya did?

[Toxigen]

op might be DSM

[fortior]

Instead of even entertaining the thought that his idea sucks and might not have universal acclaim, OP immediately moves to discredit anyone voting against what he wants.

[doobie]

Kill or be killed. No fucking participation trophies.

[Otsego]

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However, the current system also promotes unhealthy behavior by encouraging 24/7 camping. A well-designed roll or list system with proper breaks and shared efforts can mitigate these issues. It’s about finding a balanced solution. As already mentioned many times, random has be implemented for other parts of the quest chain.

I feel you're a bit misguided in this way of thinking. I understand that from a solo player perspective, the idea of you having to camp a 24 hour spawn feels quite unhealthy, since that burden falls entirely on you to maintain presence and hold the camp over that day. But the same is not true for the groups/guilds/alliances holding the camp, the ones you are trying to prevent by your agreement.

At least with our group, we split the burden of covering long hours by having people rotate in and out based on their free time and real life commitments. They can literally pop online and offline at any time, even if they only contribute for 5 minutes at a time. The team actually creates a more healthy environment for them because the entire burden does not fall on them.

It has also had the benefit of creating friendships within guilds/communities that did not exist prior to the group forming. Normally we saw each other on raids, did our roles, then left and did other things. We may talk in passing while in groups, but it was never at the level it has been while camping Drusella. This has been a deeper bonding experience and each person allowing the others around them to share the burden of maintaining the camp. People begin to work around each other's schedules and availability. People log on to help or take over for others. This has fostered friendships and deeper bonds within our alliance and has been a positive and healthy experience.

A /random system like at angry would just promote people looking for easy RNG-based profit, a jackpot - it introduces greed where greed wasn't even the focus before (at least for our group, who is looking to help each other complete their quests and become stronger). It would definitely cause more urns to hit the market - you are correct - but who is to say that's even a good thing? Multiquesting and the selling of MQs, if anything, is discouraged by the GMs and they will not help you if your MQ goes wrong. Its just bypassing the need to do the quest yourself, usually in exchange for platinum. I don't judge anyone who goes this route - it's fine, but you're acting like MQs are an entitlement or the greater good here - at the direct expense of those genuinely trying to complete the quest themselves legitimately.

I've said this previously, but you keep acting like this is the same as Angry or Shady Goblin rolls, just because they are in the same quest chain. When both of those require you to be factioned in order to participate and you also prove you are at that point in the quest line by having the item to be turned in to both of those mobs.

That is not the same for Drusella. You do not have to prove you are factioned to loot an urn off the boss. You do not have to prove you have even completed the Regal Band quest. Absolutely anybody can come just to /random if they have the key to zone in.

That means you're gonna have 100-200 people, some utilizing their IP exemptions, all trying to levitate into east (and failing), causing trains, and even those that make it will have one of their invis's drop, or not even know they need double invis, or can double invis to begin with, and there's just going to be a bloodbath in the east wing, with people trying to recover their corpses and making things worse in the process. That's not even considering the trains that are not accidental. How about the people who see the opportunity to kill dozens of people? There are so many ways to cause trains into the east wing without much or any proof that it came from you.

And then what happens to all the people who win but no urn drops? "Oh well"

That's a good system? You could theoretically let a winner carry over to future days until an urn drops, but that person may not show up. Or they may lie and say no urn dropped when one did. There's too much room for players to abuse the system, but the worst part is going to be the zone turning into train city at all hours of the day because a lottery is now being held there. People will try to park during off hours and fail, so it won't only affect Drusella's spawn hour.

More than likely though your dice roll victory only affects the Drusella that spawns that day, so you take your shot and might walk away empty handed - the difference there though is that the victory will not often translate into you completing that part of the quest, where with the already implemented dice rolls it does guarantee that.

Have you even considered any of this? Or are you only concerned about your solo perspective in a zone that is meant to be for group content and teamwork?

This game is not meant to coddle you or cater to your desires for easy access to things. When you look at Everquest camps overall, you can easily make the argument that most of them are a timesink and likely a little bit unhealthy. You know this going in though.. it's not a secret that this game is brutal in those ways. A lot of us like that aspect of it. If we wanted easy mode we'd have played WoW or other games instead.

[berbax]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Instead of even entertaining the thought that his idea sucks and might not have universal acclaim, OP immediately moves to discredit anyone voting against what he wants.

Fortior, the intention wasn’t to get into a debate about the breakdown of the votes, but rather to ensure we’re considering all perspectives, especially when clear biases could influence the outcome. Recognizing these biases helps us focus on what’s fair for the broader community.

What’s more important is the rest of the message, which is about investigating the Blue URN system as a potential alternative that could address the concerns on both sides. My goal here is to find a solution that benefits the community as a whole, rather than getting bogged down in divisive discussions.

Let’s keep the focus on finding the best path forward for everyone involved. Thanks for your input.