Player Agreement: Rule Change at the DS Camp

[Allishia]

URN discord is the way, dkp instead of a roll so it is fair based on effort put in, not /RNG. I'm sure brool would be happy to help y'all set one up. Really fixed blue and eliminated that greedy farm crew that was shafting their own guildys too lmao. Also no need to involve csr that way, you can just out compete them

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Allishia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

URN discord is the way, dkp instead of a roll so it is fair based on effort put in, not /RNG. I'm sure brool would be happy to help y'all set one up. Really fixed blue and eliminated that greedy farm crew that was shafting their own guildys too lmao. Also no need to involve csr that way, you can just out compete them

you are the greedy farm crew, bda sucked

[Ruien]

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This request pertains to the green server, not blue (as it seems you're mostly blue focused).

We are sharing the blue URN system because it's the best solution to the problem you are trying to solve. There is no reason you could not implement it on green.

This matters to the blue server as well, because if green starts doing a roll, then someone will say "blue should be a roll too - just look at green". Do not call any system which invites anyone to join "elitist".

We are against changing DS to a /random roll, we have good reasons to be against it, and we have communicated those reasons effectively and respectfully. Drop the discussion of changing DS to a /random roll and focus instead on implementing an URN discord like Blue has.

[fullmetalcoxman]

Originally Posted by Surkk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Big surprise, the people profiting from the current system who have the means to maintain a round the clock sock don't want any changes. DS should be brought in line with other quest bottlenecks like ring 8/10, scout and shady/angry.

Agreed, /random, while not perfect, at least eliminates some of the insanity

[berbax]

Originally Posted by Ruien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We are sharing the blue URN system because it's the best solution to the problem you are trying to solve. There is no reason you could not implement it on green.

This matters to the blue server as well, because if green starts doing a roll, then someone will say "blue should be a roll too - just look at green". Do not call any system which invites anyone to join "elitist".

We are against changing DS to a /random roll, we have good reasons to be against it, and we have communicated those reasons effectively and respectfully. Drop the discussion of changing DS to a /random roll and focus instead on implementing an URN discord like Blue has.

Discussion will continue as long as people are providing input and considering changes. While the URN discord on Blue has been suggested, it seems to have its own set of issues based on what I've read. Implementing a /random roll system aligns with other adjustments in the quest line, like the changes made for shady/angry.

Here is the core set of issues I've found from blue server with their URN implementation:

1. Urn cost remains high
2. Guilds are pemanently farming the item still
3. Still does not provide a fair opportunity to all members of the server (as it relates to guilds swapping players in and out to keep it locked)

[fortior]

Originally Posted by Surkk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Big surprise, the people profiting from the current system who have the means to maintain a round the clock sock don't want any changes. DS should be brought in line with other quest bottlenecks like ring 8/10, scout and shady/angry.

Ring 8, scout, and shady/angry are rolls because of clickfests sucking (due to autofire/cheating), not because they’re quest bottlenecks. Lodi is a bottleneck and FTE. Stormfeather is a bottleneck and not a random roll but a camp. Magi is a bottleneck and FTE. Fear golems are bottlenecks and FTE, this was even the case pre fear revamp (when irak could solo one). Spinning DS as some sort of odd one out is either willfully dishonest or done out of ignorance.

This is an attempt by a player uninterested in multiplayer EQ to, through appealing to GMs, remove gameplay from the game.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Mewlio [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Project 1999 is here to emulate Everquest as we experienced it "back in the day" and instituting rules that just award people things for showing up is bogus.

Everquest "back in the day", as soon as the Play Nice Policy was instituted, dictated that camps must be shared. That means you only get 1 chance at a spawn and afterward it goes to the next person in line.

If p99 was actually following Classic rules, then people would need to take turns killing the hallway spawn, and whoever's turn it is when Drusella Sathir spawns is who gets the rights to fight her.

[loramin]

In what world would any of these not be true?

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Urn cost remains high

Urn costs will remain high no matter what system you implement. It has nothing to do with the system, and everything to do with the fact that only one urn enters the server every few days ... but a lot more players than that who want it. Supply and demand.

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Guilds are pemanently farming the item still

"Guilds" will "permanently farm" the item whatever the system, because players at the high-end tend to be guilded, and guilded players (like non-guilded players) want loot for their character. But this isn't some conspiracy: it's just people playing the game.

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Still does not provide a fair opportunity to all members of the server (as it relates to guilds swapping players in and out to keep it locked)

This is the only point you've succeeded at making in this entire thread ... but you still haven't even tried to engage with the fact that while /list might give more opportunities to individuals, it would make things a lot harder for groups of players.

[berbax]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ring 8, scout, and shady/angry are rolls because of clickfests sucking (due to autofire/cheating), not because they’re quest bottlenecks. Lodi is a bottleneck and FTE. Stormfeather is a bottleneck and not a random roll but a camp. Magi is a bottleneck and FTE. Fear golems are bottlenecks and FTE, this was even the case pre fear revamp (when irak could solo one). Spinning DS as some sort of odd one out is either willfully dishonest or done out of ignorance.

This is an attempt by a player uninterested in multiplayer EQ to, through appealing to GMs, remove gameplay from the game.

Fortior, you’re very vocal on this topic, and I appreciate the engagement. The roll system for camps like Ring 8, scout, and shady/angry was implemented after player agreements due to the difficulties associated with spawn variance and tracking. If you have evidence supporting the claim that it was primarily due to cheating, I’d be interested to see it. However, if cheating was indeed a significant issue, it indicates that certain individuals had an unfair advantage over the rest of the community.

The core issue here isn’t vastly different from the DS camp situation. Specific groups are monopolizing DS, creating a bottleneck by permanently camping it and selling the item. This monopolization is similar to the unfair advantages that led to roll systems in other camps.

Addressing these bottlenecks through a roll system would ensure fairness and provide equitable opportunities for all players. Your concerns about maintaining multiplayer gameplay are valid, but it’s essential to recognize that adapting rules to current game realities can enhance the overall experience for the community.

[berbax]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In what world would any of these not be true?

Urn costs will remain high no matter what system you implement. It has nothing to do with the system, and everything to do with the fact that only one urn enters the server every few days ... but a lot more players than that who want it. Supply and demand.

"Guilds" will "permanently farm" the item whatever the system, because players at the high-end tend to be guilded, and guilded players (like non-guilded players) want loot for their character. But this isn't some conspiracy: it's just people playing the game.

This is the only point you've succeeded at making in this entire thread ... but you still haven't even tried to engage with the fact that while /list might give more opportunities to individuals, it would make things a lot harder for groups of players.

Hi Loramin,

If you don't like my suggestions, I invite you to provide an alternative solution to the problem. You’re right that people will continue to farm and sell the urn, but a random roll system would give many more players a chance to obtain the item they need.

As I’ve mentioned multiple times, this proposal aims to address several issues:

Player Health: Reducing the need for unhealthy 24-hour camping sessions.
Community Health: Promoting a fairer environment.
Community Fairness and Opportunity: Ensuring more players have access to the camp, not just those who can dedicate excessive time.

While it may not eliminate the selling of urns, it should improve the overall community experience. Thank you for your feedback. As always, I’m open to alternative suggestions that could also address these concerns.