DPS: Monk vs. Warrior vs. Rogue vs. Ranger

[Snaggles]

While I think sometimes people who “tank AoW” overlook minor details like the 25+ clerics or the classes giving the DS that puts them on the parse, outside charmed pets nobody is tanking AoW but warriors.

A 25+ chain instant chain is still subject to human error. Warriors especially with defensive add a safety net where the beefiest knight would be on razor thin margins even if avoiding that one-round dirt nap. They will drop more quickly and you will need a bump…so more bumps and tanks to do the same job.

A theoretical 100 cleric chain of course is sustainable forever but it just adds more chance of error. Unless you have a substantial amount of dps it’s going to be a slow fight so just more chance for error as boredom and fatigue sets in.

Plus…there is a reason why clerics universally get dkp bonuses. You can’t just pick a number and expect them to show up in droves.

Rather than push people into silly warrior roles (like AoW) I do think there is a case for more knight tank targets. If you have the clerics and the knight has 6k+ why not? It keeps things fun.

Anyways what were we saying about dps classes? Rangers are the best? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While I think sometimes people who “tank AoW” overlook minor details like the 25+ clerics or the classes giving the DS that puts them on the parse, outside charmed pets nobody is tanking AoW but warriors.

A 25+ chain instant chain is still subject to human error. Warriors especially with defensive add a safety net where the beefiest knight would be on razor thin margins even if avoiding that one-round dirt nap. They will drop more quickly and you will need a bump…so more bumps and tanks to do the same job.

A theoretical 100 cleric chain of course is sustainable forever but it just adds more chance of error. Unless you have a substantial amount of dps it’s going to be a slow fight so just more chance for error as boredom and fatigue sets in.

Plus…there is a reason why clerics universally get dkp bonuses. You can’t just pick a number and expect them to show up in droves.

Rather than push people into silly warrior roles (like AoW) I do think there is a case for more knight tank targets. If you have the clerics and the knight has 6k+ why not? It keeps things fun.

I agree with all of this. I never claimed tanking AoW with a non-Warrior was easy, or advisable.

I was simply rebutting the claim: "Warriors are the only Tank who can tank AoW, so they get to add the damage shield damage to their parse".

For the first part of the claim, in theory any class can tank AoW. This is assuming AoW can only hit four times maximum per attack (Double attack with two flurry triggers), and this is assuming you have enough Clerics. So the first part of the claim is disproven. But you are correct it would be difficult to get a 0.25 second CH chain working consistently enough. Both in terms of player count and human error.

For the second part of the claim, Tanks do not get to take backstab damage and add it to their DPS, even though backstabs are generally only possible when you have another player tanking the mob for the Rogue. Same logic applies to Damage Shields. The person casting the damage shield gets DPS credit, not the player wearing the damage shield. This disproves the second part of the claim.

[Jimjam]

Warriors aren’t adding ds to their parse. It is baked into it.

[Kirdan]

To answer the OP:
It's generally going to be rogue > monk > warrior/ranger. Certain fights favor one class over another, whether it's due to different threat conditions (FD is much better than evade) or different raid strategies (sometimes archery is preferred for dps), but outside of those niche situations, and assuming gear levels are roughly equal, it's rogue > monk > warrior/ranger.

Yes, any class can survive AoW with enough Clerics.

To this guy:
Um, no. Unless you are just saying that anyone can get lucky enough that they never eat a max flurry round? That would be a pretty asinine thing to suggest though. Even max HP defensive warriors (the very best tank for this encounter) can die within a 1s window vs AoW. Remove defensive and it becomes literally impossible to survive a max flurry round. (1154 x 6) + 309 = 7233 dmg in one round where no heals can possibly land between the damage.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Kirdan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To this guy:
Um, no. Unless you are just saying that anyone can get lucky enough that they never eat a max flurry round? That would be a pretty asinine thing to suggest though. Even max HP defensive warriors (the very best tank for this encounter) can die within a 1s window vs AoW. Remove defensive and it becomes literally impossible to survive a max flurry round. (1154 x 6) + 309 = 7233 dmg in one round where no heals can possibly land between the damage.

Again, I didn't say it would be easy or advisable.

Also, why do you think AoW can hit 6x in one attack?

As far as I know, he can only hit 4 times per single attack (Double Attack + 2 Flurries). He does attack fast enough to attack multiple times per second, but a CH chain going faster than 1 second could heal between attacks.

The reason why a Warrior can die in one second is because the CH chain is a 1 second chain, not because AoW is doing 6+ hits in a single attack. This is because AoW can do multiple attacks in a second, which can add up to like 8 hits. You could theoretically heal between those attacks on a CH chain faster than a second.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warriors aren’t adding ds to their parse. It is baked into it.

No. The parser is simply applying the Damage Shield DPS to the wearer, because the parser doesn't know who cast the damage shield(s) on the wearer.

That is just a limitation of the parser. The parser doesn't know or care about nuance like that.

[Kirdan]

You are incorrect. He can hit 6x on a flurry round (plus a bash for a little extra 7th). That is not 2 rounds in the same second. There is no way to remove that chance of death via a faster chain. Now, if you have a TON of dps and a TON of luck, then sure, maybe you avoid the worst case scenario (and many slightly less worse case scenarios that are also fatal) long enough to kill AoW with a lesser tank, but that is just not reasonably possible.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Kirdan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are incorrect. He can hit 6x on a flurry round (plus a bash for a little extra 7th). That is not 2 rounds in the same second. There is no way to remove that chance of death via a faster chain. Now, if you have a TON of dps and a TON of luck, then sure, maybe you avoid the worst case scenario (and many slightly less worse case scenarios that are also fatal) long enough to kill AoW with a lesser tank, but that is just not reasonably possible.

What's the mechanic for him getting 6 hits? Does he have tripple attack (3 hits + 3 flurry triggers)?

And yes, I agree it's very tough, I never claimed otherwise.

[Sonark]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

because its shit

Also increases how often you hit the mob, which no one ever seems to think is important.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Sonark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also increases how often you hit the mob, which no one ever seems to think is important.

This is incorrect unfortunately. No stat like DEX, STR, etc. affects how often you hit on P99.