Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[bcbrown]

I'll take that as confirmation you're fine with the actual damage calculation I provided.

Next step is to consider the very first swing.
Base delay is 4.7 seconds, simplified to 12.5 swings per minute. At a base rate of 1.3 PPM, that means each swing is:
(1.3 Proc/minute) / (12.5 swings/minute) or 0.104 procs/swing - every swing has a 10.4% chance to proc.

So if you take just a single swing at a mob with this weapon, there's a 10.4% chance it procs. Agreed?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll take that as confirmation you're fine with the actual damage calculation I provided.

Next step is to consider the very first swing.
Base delay is 4.7 seconds, simplified to 12.5 swings per minute. At a base rate of 1.3 PPM, that means each swing is:
(1.3 Proc/minute) / (12.5 swings/minute) or 0.104 procs/swing - every swing has a 10.4% chance to proc.

So if you take just a single swing at a mob with this weapon, there's a 10.4% chance it procs. Agreed?

No, I am not fine with the calculation if you are going to claim another proc reduces DPS in some manner. If it just adds more damage, it's not really important to your claim the DPS is lower.

[bcbrown]

Fine, can we discuss the very first swing?

If you swing exactly once, there's a 10.4% chance it procs, right?

[bcbrown]

If you swing exactly once, it either procs or does not proc. The chance of a proc on that one swing is 10.4%, and the chance of no proc on that one swing is 89.6%.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you swing exactly once, it either procs or does not proc. The chance of a proc on that one swing is 10.4%, and the chance of no proc on that one swing is 89.6%.

If you are discussing the 18 second example, you have a 31.2% chance to proc per fight, as we always assume 3 hits.

[bcbrown]

The proc rate is calculated on a per-swing basis - you can check the implementation if you like. Note - this is Secret's version.

https://github.com/SecretsOTheP/EQMa...tack.cpp#L3721
https://github.com/SecretsOTheP/EQMa...pp#L3809-L3814

After a single swing, either it procs or it does not proc. There is a probability that it procs, and it is calculable and knowable. That number is 10.4% with this weapon.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You can just continue, will be afk for a bit. I'll rebut when I get back if necessary.

[bcbrown]

We can continue tomorrow, or whenever you're back.

We need to agree that if you take a single swing with a weapon, it will either proc or not proc, and that our calculations for this weapon result in a 10.4% chance. I can't continue until we agree on that.

[aussenseiter]

Only hybrids get swing timer countdown during cast in EverQuest

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by aussenseiter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Only hybrids get swing timer countdown during cast in EverQuest

I guess my Shaman didn't get the memo.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We can continue tomorrow, or whenever you're back.

I'll try a different approach:

Here are Ionat's Weapon Damage values that I logged. This is Weapon Damage only, kick/bash damage is not inlcuded. Weapon Damage has 20 possible values on Mobs. They roll a D20 every time they calculate what damage they want to select. The roll can be adjusted up or down based on some mitigation variables. You can see that I roll on the lower half of the damage table 2/3 times a bit further down in the text.

Ionat Weapon Damage Table:

[44, 54, 64, 74, 84, 94, 104, 115, 125, 135, 145, 155, 165, 176, 186, 196, 206, 216, 226, 237] = (2801 / 20) = 140.05 x 0.5 (Miss Rate) = 70.5 DPS average

Ionat Weapon Damage Table Half Set Averages:

- 1908 damage by adding up the last 10 values in the set = 1908 / 10 = 190.8 average damage on the upper half of the Damage Table
- 893 damage by adding up the first 10 values in the set = 893 / 10 = 89.3 average Damage on the lower half of the Damage Table

Actual data from Logs:

- 64 successful damage rolls were on the upper half of the Damage Table
- 127 successful damage rolls were on the lower half of the Damage Table
- 96 Misses
- 191 hits
- (50% Hit rate)

Actual damage from logs = 23088 damage / 1248 seconds = 18.5 DPS (slowed by 75%) = 74 DPS unslowed
Expected Average damage from logged rolls = (89.3 x 127) + (190.8 x 64) = 23552.2 / 1248 seconds = 18.8 DPS (slowed by 75%) = 75.4 DPS unslowed
Expected Average damage from Damage Table = 70.5 DPS unslowed

Ionat Summary:

The Damage Table expects 70.5 DPS on average. I logged 74 DPS, which is close to the Damage Table and the expected average of 75.4 DPS based on how often I rolled on the lower half of the damage table vs. the upper half. This game works on averages, and you can use real data to see these averages in action.

How this relates to weapon procs:

You can do the same thing for proc damage. For example, let's assume you have 1 PPM on a weapon that procs for 400 Direct Damage, and the fight lasts 60 seconds:

[400 (tick=1), 400 (tick=2), 400 (tick=3), 400 (tick=4), 400 (tick=5), 400 (tick=6), 400 (tick=7), 400 (tick=8), 400 (tick=9), 400 (tick=10)] = (4000 damage / 10 ticks) = (400 damage / 60 seconds) x 1 PPM = 6.66 DPS on average

Let's reduce the PPM to 0.5:

[400, 400, 400, 400, 400, 400, 400, 400, 400, 400] = (4000 damage / 10 ticks) = (400 damage / 60 seconds) x 0.5 PPM = 3.33 DPS on average

Using the logic from Ionat on DoT Procs:

Let's go back to the Ionat damage table. Think of the possible DoT damage positions per tick as the individual weapon damages in Ionat's damage table, and think of the Hit rate as the PPM proc rate. Because Procs Per minute work on the minute scale, proccing a weapon is basically just selecting a random tick within a minute of the fight to get a proc, because the percentage of triggering the proc is equal per swing. If we have 0.5 PPM on a 1 minute fight using https://wiki.project1999.com/Scourge as the DoT:

[40, 64, 88, 112, 136, 160, 184, 208, 232, 256, 280] = (1760 damage / 11 ticks [10 + 1 initial DD]) = (160 damage / 60 seconds) x 0.5 PPM = 1.33 DPS on average