Why do people say SK's do more DPS than Paladins?

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A lot of people still sleep on this for some reason. A tank who can grab instant agro, root, cast stuns for days, heal, paci pull, emergency LoH, emergency Soulfire CH, spam mana free heals, 90% rez, etc...

Like, are you kidding me? This is without question one of the strongest classes in the game. A good Paladin completely trivializes basically all groupable content, and turns what are typically the most dangerous areas in EQ (densely packed, caster heavy dungeons) into extremely safe environments for their group. There's simply no other class that is capable of carrying a group on his back like a Paladin can. SKs are kinda cool (great pullers, CoS is fun, etc...) but anyone who thinks they are even half the group tank a Paladin is... well, they're smoking something good. They're perfectly capable tanks in the sense that they can reliably hold agro, but beyond that the Paladin absolutely runs away with it in terms of the added utility and safety he brings to the group.

Let's not get carried away. In a realistic day to day group setting you're going to have a cleric that brings most of that utility. Ench is as good if not better at locking down casters, coupled with other utility and top tier dps, and undoubtedly has to be present for paladin to even function without constant medding. Lay hands and soulfire are good group and raid utility and wipe-stoppers, but there aren't enough Lucan's to go around to do it consistently in groups.

Paladins were probably the weakest class pre-Velious. End game velious they are certainly improved, but nowhere near one of the strongest classes in game. Enchanters, clerics, monks, shamans are just in a league of their own.

[PatChapp]

I would group with a paladin over an SK 100% of the time.
While they aren't the superheroes as described above,just having a tank that can act as backup heals is worth the small loss of DPS vs an SK with a pet.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's not get carried away. In a realistic day to day group setting you're going to have a cleric that brings most of that utility. Ench is as good if not better at locking down casters

You basically prove my point here. The Paladin is bringing a large portion of the benefits of an Enchanter and a Cleric, combined with tanking and modest DPS. Can an SK or Warrior make the same claim? Even the suggestion is risible.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ench is as good if not better at locking down casters, coupled with other utility and top tier dps, and undoubtedly has to be present for paladin to even function without constant medding.

I find it funny you started your post with “let’s not get carried away” and then said what I highlighted in red.

Flash of light is 12 mana
Low level stun is 35 mana
Low level root is 30 mana
Lull is 10 mana and works fine in a lot of areas

Playing a paladin *functionally* as a tank is actually pretty inexpensive mana wise. If I’m playing my paladin without clarity or PoTG in a faster tempo group I just roll into efficiency mode and keep my mana floating higher in the 70-85+ range to have some reserve for the “oh shit” moments. And yeah groups without enchanters typically are going to have more med time or spaced out and less complicated pulls. There’s plenty of time to pop a squat here and there to cover those super expensive level 1, 5, and 9 cleric spells.

I mean … let’s not get carried away here [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I find it funny you started your post with “let’s not get carried away” and then said what I highlighted in red.

Flash of light is 12 mana
Low level stun is 35 mana
Low level root is 30 mana
Lull is 10 mana and works fine in a lot of areas

Playing a paladin *functionally* as a tank is actually pretty inexpensive mana wise. If I’m playing my paladin without clarity or PoTG in a faster tempo group I just roll into efficiency mode and keep my mana floating higher in the 70-85+ range to have some reserve for the “oh shit” moments. And yeah groups without enchanters typically are going to have more med time or spaced out and less complicated pulls. There’s plenty of time to pop a squat here and there to cover those super expensive level 1, 5, and 9 cleric spells.

I mean … let’s not get carried away here [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You know what I mean, actually playing a paladin and not a gimped warrior. Think about being tank in a 6 person group, or even a smaller comp, without either crack, potg or bardsong. Those little 30 mana roots and 35 mana stuns, 12 mana FoL's one to three times a fight add up, especially since spell agro was nerfed. Eventually you're going to need to sit and med. Now imagine if you're also pulling and/or trying to use other utility. It's par for the course for non-cracked groups I get that, but I feel like hybrids especially suffer as they're not medding during fights or pulls (if pulling). Nevermind that the person I replied to described paladins spinning eight plates; like without context what class do you feel like this is describing:

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

completely trivializes basically all groupable content, and turns what are typically the most dangerous areas in EQ (densely packed, caster heavy dungeons) into extremely safe environments for their group.

It's really an advertisement for enchanters. Knights are powered by crack and feel gimped to play without it in active groups. Like yea you can function lol, but not well. Efficiency mode over extended periods basically just means keeping agro and using very little utility. It's a frustrating playstyle for me as I like to use the full breadth of spells. Like I rolled a knight to handle situations while being a melee, not run an ultramanathon

Although that reminds me, paladin/enchanter is a super fun duo

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Although that reminds me, paladin/enchanter is a super fun duo

Indeed. Sleeper strong duo. Arguably faster for pure XP than cleric...just loses tempo once mobs get tougher in the upper 50s.

[Gloomlord]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I find it funny you started your post with “let’s not get carried away” and then said what I highlighted in red.

Flash of light is 12 mana
Low level stun is 35 mana
Low level root is 30 mana
Lull is 10 mana and works fine in a lot of areas

Playing a paladin *functionally* as a tank is actually pretty inexpensive mana wise. If I’m playing my paladin without clarity or PoTG in a faster tempo group I just roll into efficiency mode and keep my mana floating higher in the 70-85+ range to have some reserve for the “oh shit” moments. And yeah groups without enchanters typically are going to have more med time or spaced out and less complicated pulls. There’s plenty of time to pop a squat here and there to cover those super expensive level 1, 5, and 9 cleric spells.

I mean … let’s not get carried away here [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's not also forget Deepwater Bracer for mana free stun, and Deepwater Vambraces for mana free Soothe.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's not also forget Deepwater Bracer for mana free stun, and Deepwater Vambraces for mana free Soothe.

It’s ok to pull with but is about as effective as the door that could only hold one person aloat in Titanic.

Cancel magic gloves, arms, helm, BP, legs, all varying degrees of good to great.