Want to Start a Rogue and Just want to Make Sure I Understand a Couple Things

[Duik]

Originally Posted by Duane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://youtu.be/xFXUYl2ljqI

Lolocaust. Dwarf it is then.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

HE.
WANTS.
TO.
SPECIFICALLY.
BE.
A.
GNOME.

Please read op BEFORE applying DSM logic to arguements.
P.S The correct answer is ALWAYS Wizard.

I know he wants to be a gnome. Putting periods in your sentences and turning on caps lock doesn't make you look smart.

My point is if the loss in starting STR was such a huge problem, people would be advising against picking gnome. Just because OP wants to be a gnome, it doesn't mean people cannot try to dissuade OP from being a gnome. Rogues have illusion masks as well, so race matters less in terms of fashion.

You cannot simultaneously say fashion > stats while also saying if he doesn't put 25 points into STR, he's going to have major problems playing his class. He is already losing 43+ STR for his fashion choice.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...6&postcount=18

The gear list I provided in the link above would put you at 160 strength as a gnome, with no buffs or points put into STR. With Maniacal Strength + FoS you will be at 295 Strength. It is trivial to cap STR in Velious era with EC gear and buffs. Even as a gnome, STA is the better starting stat choice.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You cannot simultaneously say fashion > stats while also saying if he doesn't put 25 points into STR, he's going to have major problems playing his class. He is already losing 43+ STR for his fashion choice

I don’t think anybody has suggested you’re going to have major problems playing their class if you don’t go str. That’s the most ludicrous concept and if anyone agrees with that then they’re just trolling.

But there’s nothing wrong with getting the best returns from starting stats while still picking your favorite race, which is the most important.

Str just provides more short term benefit than sta for rogues. Sta provides almost no short term benefit, and not much long term benefit either as rogues don’t need to prioritize hp like warriors and sta gets capped eventually anyway.

Edit: It takes a long time to cap str without constantly relying on shaman buffs especially as a gnome even with a good twink budget while also focusing on resist gear. And buffs can get dispelled.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don’t think anybody has suggested you’re going to have major problems playing their class if you don’t go str. That’s the most ludicrous concept and if anyone agrees with that then they’re just trolling.

But there’s nothing wrong with getting the best returns from starting stats while still picking your favorite race, which is the most important.

Str just provides more short term benefit than sta for rogues. Sta provides almost no short term benefit, and not much long term benefit either as rogues don’t need to prioritize hp like warriors and sta gets capped eventually anyway.

As I said before, if this was OP's first character on a server, STR would have a stronger case for a lot of classes, since it helps you carry around stuff to sell, which translates into plat you can use to get gear.

OP has 20k worth of twink gear. There is no reason to pick STR for short term gains when you can already get a bunch of STR from EC gear, and you have Velious era weapons + a haste item.

STR is the easiest stat to cap, so it's not a big deal if you don't put your points into STR. STA is the better long term choice, and OP doesn't need the short term gains from STR.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And buffs can get dispelled.

Your dispel point doesn't really matter, because spell haste is going to provide much more DPS than STR buffs. The problem with getting dispelled is losing your spell haste, not your STR buffs.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Edit: It takes a long time to cap str without constantly relying on shaman buffs especially as a gnome even with a good twink budget while also focusing on resist gear.

It really isn't difficult to cap STR, and Rogues generally group anyway. I am not sure why you think most Rogues are going to have trouble getting STR buffs. Unless you have 100k+ worth of gear, Rogue soloing is generally very rough, which is why Rogues prefer to group while leveling.

[fortior]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don’t think anybody has suggested you’re going to have major problems playing their class if you don’t go str. That’s the most ludicrous concept and if anyone agrees with that then they’re just trolling.

But there’s nothing wrong with getting the best returns from starting stats while still picking your favorite race, which is the most important.

Str just provides more short term benefit than sta for rogues. Sta provides almost no short term benefit, and not much long term benefit either as rogues don’t need to prioritize hp like warriors and sta gets capped eventually anyway.

Edit: It takes a long time to cap str without constantly relying on shaman buffs especially as a gnome even with a good twink budget while also focusing on resist gear. And buffs can get dispelled.

You're talking to a dude who plays a buff bot on raids for a bottom tier guild

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're talking to a dude who plays a buff bot on raids for a bottom tier guild

I am not sure why you think this strategy works, or even helps your argument. You just look like an asshole, and you still aren't correct on any of your points[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When did looking like an incorrect asshole help someone's argument?

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don’t think anybody has suggested you’re going to have major problems playing their class if you don’t go str. That’s the most ludicrous concept and if anyone agrees with that then they’re just trolling.

But there’s nothing wrong with getting the best returns from starting stats while still picking your favorite race, which is the most important.

Str just provides more short term benefit than sta for rogues. Sta provides almost no short term benefit, and not much long term benefit either as rogues don’t need to prioritize hp like warriors and sta gets capped eventually anyway.

Edit: It takes a long time to cap str without constantly relying on shaman buffs especially as a gnome even with a good twink budget while also focusing on resist gear. And buffs can get dispelled.

also resists > HP anyway for the overwhelming majority of raids where a rogue will take dmg

and that resist gear may be taking away from STR - esp if you're just getting started and dont have those big juicy BiS pieces

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

also resists > HP anyway for the overwhelming majority of raids where a rogue will take dmg

and that resist gear may be taking away from STR - esp if you're just getting started and dont have those big juicy BiS pieces

Agreed that Resists are generally better. You are still going to easily cap STR in a raid. With Maniacal Strength + FoS you only need 120 STR total without buffs. With Rogue Epic and Thick Banded Belt or Gauntlets of Potence, you are already at 35/60 STR needed to hit 120 STR on a gnome Rogue.

If you want to bring dispelling mobs into the conversation, those hurt your resists and haste % too. It's a flimsy argument to say +25 STR is going to significantly increase your raid DPS in the specific scenario of all your buffs going away.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As I said before, if this was OP's first character on a server, STR would have a stronger case for a lot of classes, since it helps you carry around stuff to sell, which translates into plat you can use to get gear.

OP has 20k worth of twink gear. There is no reason to pick STR for short term gains when you can already get a bunch of STR from EC gear, and you have Velious era weapons + a haste item.

STR is the easiest stat to cap, so it's not a big deal if you don't put your points into STR. STA is the better long term choice, and OP doesn't need the short term gains from STR.



Your dispel point doesn't really matter, because spell haste is going to provide much more DPS than STR buffs. The problem with getting dispelled is losing your spell haste, not your STR buffs.



It really isn't difficult to cap STR, and Rogues generally group anyway. I am not sure why you think most Rogues are going to have trouble getting STR buffs. Unless you have 100k+ worth of gear, Rogue soloing is generally very rough, which is why Rogues prefer to group while leveling.

You’re trying so hard to defend your STA argument when the rogue arguments for going STA are essentially “cuz sta is harder to cap” and “dead rogues don’t do dps”.

Both dumb arguments IMO, sta is not a rogue stat that matters, there’s no data to suggest capping sta sooner “saves lives”. Like I said, it’s a Magelo dick stroking stat for rogues. These are all insignificant imo, whereas you can prove you do more dps with morestrength, and you will not instantly cap str at startup. It will also let you carry more items and pp without being encumbered. These are real measurable gains.

It’s really that simple, OP knows the arguments, it’s up to them to decide what to do with them.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You’re trying so hard to defend your STA argument when the rogue arguments for going STA are essentially “cuz sta is harder to cap” and “dead rogues don’t do dps”.

Both dumb arguments IMO, sta is not a rogue stat that matters, there’s no data to suggest capping sta sooner “saves lives”. Like I said, it’s a Magelo dick stroking stat for rogues. These are all insignificant imo, whereas you can prove you do more dps with morestrength, and you will not instantly cap str at startup. It will also let you carry more items and pp without being encumbered. These are real measurable gains.

It’s really that simple, OP knows the arguments, it’s up to them to decide what to do with them.

I am not sure why this is a difficult concept. You put your starting stats into the stat that is harder to cap. You get zero returns from a capped stat.

STR is easy to cap in Velious era. You are generally just throwing your points away by putting your starting stats there. The exception to this is if you are making your first character on a server. In that specific scenario, STR can be a good choice. OP has 20k worth of twink gear, so this clearly isn't the case.

If you really thought STR was such a big deal, you would be telling OP to play Barbarian instead. Rogues have a lot of fashion options with illusion masks already.

If you want to claim fashion > stats, then you are saying losing 43 STR isn't a big deal. I am saying losing 25 STR isn't a big deal. We are saying the same thing, since 43 STR is a bigger loss than 25 STR.