student loans are a hit!

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Elizondo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Obviously repeat offenders will not commit additional crimes if they are serving longer sentences

Obviously. But as a whole longer sentences don't lower overall crime rates because you're ultimately creating more and worse criminals.

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Prisons not being effective at rehabilitation means all the more reason not to let them rot in there on the taxpayer dime for years and years before they eventually come out and commit another crime

Yeah why have penalties at all? The shortest time the best since nothing works, let’s have them stay 1 day and be back out

How ridiculous. They have to come out to commit another crime don’t they? If they can’t come out, hey no crime!

Statisticians know how to control for variables as simple as two different states. I take it you have never learned statistics and are poo-pooing one of humanity's most powerful tools blindly. The causality of long term sentencing is pretty clear which is why most places in the US aren't doing it anymore.

They wouldn’t even know all the differences in populations exact effects to know what to control for. Do you think people in Phx behave like people in Alabama? Like people in NY?

Are you kidding me

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Obviously. But as a whole longer sentences don't lower overall crime rates because you're ultimately creating more and worse criminals.

I don’t care much if an 80yr old geezer after spending 30 years in prison is a worse criminal

Aside from gun violence (which he shouldn’t have as a felon and wouldn’t if I had my way and we brought back stop and frisk), his ability to commit violent crimes has plummeted

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Obviously. But as a whole longer sentences don't lower overall crime rates because you're ultimately creating more and worse criminals.

If you want to get into why criminals are criminals we can do that

Hint: Primarily raised by single mothers

[unsunghero]

How about we do a study on how gangs operate differently in different cities

Since crime rates are only based on sentencing

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How about we do a study on how gangs operate differently in different cities

Since crime rates are only based on sentencing

The premise that harsher penalties don't deter crime is false. It's grounded in sympathy for criminals and not justice for the victims.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Elizondo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The premise that harsher penalties don't deter crime is false. It's grounded in sympathy for criminals and not justice for the victims.

People who study this disagree with you but I guess your gut feelings win out

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Elizondo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The premise that harsher penalties don't deter crime is false. It's grounded in sympathy for criminals and not justice for the victims.

I didn’t delve too far into the studies, but studies in general are so often manipulated to a particular outcome

Like I said, I would like to see a study on the differences between say MS13, the crips, the hells angels behavior might affect crime rates

How the availability or not of guns in a particular area might affect crime rates

How many victims are accessible at night in different cities might affect crime rates

But nope, we found a way to isolate out all of those plus the dozens of others that could be proposed given more thought, and isolated it down to sentencing length

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Elizondo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The premise that harsher penalties don't deter crime is false. It's grounded in sympathy for criminals and not justice for the victims.

No, it's grounded in fact: I already linked studies demonstrating as much.

If harsher penalties deter crime, show me some evidence. Surely there are conservative researchers at major academic institutions? If strong penalties deter crime, they would have studies documenting it ... right?

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, it's grounded in fact: I already linked studies demonstrating as much.

If harsher penalties deter crime, show me some evidence. Surely there are conservative researchers at major academic institutions? If strong penalties deter crime, they would have studies documenting it ... right?

If studies are gold then I guess that includes all the unethical medical ones of the present and past too