Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

my evidence

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

# of posts about Shamans improving the DPS of their group via Root-Rotting mulitple mobs parallel to the group: tens? hundreds?

# of posts including evidence of such: 0

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The evidence which proves you have made tens? hundreds? of posts claiming that Shamans can improve group DPS by Root Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group - while providing exactly zero evidence that your Shaman has ever done such a thing, much less that it is a common/frequent occurrence - is this entire thread.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The evidence which proves you have made tens? hundreds? of posts claiming that Shamans can improve group DPS by Root Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group - while providing exactly zero evidence that your Shaman has ever done such a thing, much less that it is a common/frequent occurrence - is this entire thread.

Furthermore, I have made no claims in this thread, I have only stated irrefutable facts - like the above - and asked simple questions.

Simply saying you haven't made any claims doesn't mean anything. You seem to have forgotten what you posted two pages ago:

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cleric is simply safer & more reliable than Shaman, because a Cleric's superior utility over a Shaman's simply offers safer & more reliable solutions to inevitable deaths/wipes, which Shaman's toolkit simply has no answer for.

Where is your evidence for that?

I predict your next post will not contain any evidence, and you will simply try to redirect asking for evidence back to me.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Simply saying you haven't made any claims doesn't mean anything. You seem to have forgotten what you posted two pages ago:
Where is your evidence for that?

Perhaps you ignored my previous post in which I explained that the reason I stated the objective fact that Clerics are safer & more reliable (than Shaman in particular) is that Clerics simply have tools (Paci, Atone, Rez) which Shamans simply do not have, that make Clerics safer and more reliable for their group in the face of - inevitable - deaths & wipes:

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It seems you might have missed where Vexenu said "how many valuable targets can we safely and reliably kill" in their post. Even discounting stuns and CH, a Cleric is simply safer and more reliable than a Shaman because the Cleric class can Pacify, Atone & Rez and therefore, even if the group nearly wipes they can camp the cleric & log back in to rez & recover. This means even if the Cleric is the only person in the 4-man group who survived, the group with Cleric healer has a non-zero chance to recover their entire group then-and-there, without needing to find and/or wait (AND/OR PAY) for rezzes, drags or corpse summons, etc. The Shaman toolkit doesn't have an answer for this scenario and the Cleric's does. It's as simple as that.

Additional evidence can be found in Cleric spellbooks (and NOT Shaman spellbooks) or I guess you can refer to the Wiki for the level at which Cleric receives the relevant spells if that is important to you. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I predict your next post will not contain any evidence, and you will simply try to redirect asking for evidence back to me.

Just in case you also ignored these -

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

# of posts about Shamans improving the DPS of their group via Root-Rotting mulitple mobs parallel to the group: tens? hundreds?

# of posts including evidence of such: 0

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The evidence which proves you have made tens? hundreds? of posts claiming that Shamans can improve group DPS by Root Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group - while providing exactly zero evidence that your Shaman has ever done such a thing, much less that it is a common/frequent occurrence - is this entire thread.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Perhaps you ignored my previous post in which I explained that the reason I stated the objective fact that Clerics are safer & more reliable (than Shaman in particular) is that Clerics simply have tools (Paci, Atone, Rez) which Shamans simply do not have, that make Clerics safer and more reliable for their groups in the face of - inevitable - deaths & wipes:



Additional evidence can be found in Cleric spellbooks or I guess you can refer to the Wiki for the level at which Cleric receives the relevant spells if that is so important to you. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]



Just in case you also ignored these -




[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for doing exactly what I predicted.

You are not simply stating an objective fact that certain spells are available to Clerics and not Shamans.

You are making the claim that a Cleric's unique spells are superior to a Shaman's unique spells when it comes to safety and reliability. You need evidence for that claim, which I know you will not provide.

This is why I do not need to continue responding to you. If you actually provide evidence for the claim that a Cleric's spells are superior to a Shaman's when it comes to safety and reliability, we can talk.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for doing exactly what I predicted.

I provided the evidence you requested, you simply have not done the same. You're welcome?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are not simply stating an objective fact that certain spells are available to Clerics and not Shamans.

Huh? those spells exist in Cleric spellbooks, and not Shamans. It's an objective fact.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are making the claim that a Cleric's unique spells are superior to a Shaman's unique spells when it comes to safety and reliability. You need evidence for that claim, which I know you will not provide.

If I were to make a claim it would be that Clerics unique spells are superior to a Shaman's unique spells when it comes to safety and reliability AND the hypothetical group which the Shaman or Cleric are being compared/judged/assessed the capabilities for already consists of 2 Enchanters - which has been an accepted part of this discussion for many - hundreds? thousands? - of posts. I cannot help it if context is lost on you amidst of all of your goalpost moving, flip-flopping and disingenuous arguing while providing zero relevant evidence to support your claims lol.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is why I do not need to continue responding to you. If you actually provide evidence for the claim that a Cleric's spells are superior to a Shaman's when it comes to safety and reliability, we can talk.

You do not need to continue responding at all. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you do though, you might consider posting evidence of your Shaman improving group DPS by Root Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group, as you fervently argued you can/could for tens? hundreds? of posts. If you can actually provide evidence for that claim, we can talk. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

# of posts about Shamans improving the DPS of their group via Root-Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group: tens? hundreds?

# of posts including evidence of such: 0

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The evidence which proves you have made tens? hundreds? of posts claiming that Shamans can improve group DPS by Root Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group - while providing exactly zero evidence that your Shaman has ever done such a thing, much less that it is a common/frequent occurrence - is this entire thread.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for doing exactly what I predicted.

You are not simply stating an objective fact that certain spells are available to Clerics and not Shamans.

You are making the claim that a Cleric's unique spells are superior to a Shaman's unique spells when it comes to safety and reliability. You need evidence for that claim, which I know you will not provide.

This is why I do not need to continue responding to you. If you actually provide evidence for the claim that a Cleric's spells are superior to a Shaman's when it comes to safety and reliability, we can talk.

Oh this one is easy.

Complete heal is superior to torpor. It can’t be dispelled, and heals for much more And scales better with velious gear and charmed mob health. Also depending on server ticks it might actually land before torpor does.

Clerics also have stun command. Arguably the best tool for a charm break. Shamans can’t really do much there, especially with disease aggro nerfed. Much safer to stun and recharm then try to out torpor a quadding fully hasted pet. And they can give the enchanter a much bigger hp pool as well for extra safety.

Clerics simply have more utility at their disposal than a shaman. Shamans biggest thing is Slow. But this is largely irrelevant with an enchanter. And If you really need malo, just Invite a mage for mala and superior dps. A cleric can also blur a mob and reset an entire fight if needed.

It’s really that simple. There’s simply no need for a shaman in this group comp. This is why you see the majority of shamans soloing in the end game.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh this one is easy.

Complete heal is superior to torpor. It can’t be dispelled, and heals for much more And scales better with velious gear and charmed mob health. Also depending on server ticks it might actually land before torpor does.

Clerics also have stun command. Arguably the best tool for a charm break. Shamans can’t really do much there, especially with disease aggro nerfed. Much safer to stun and recharm then try to out torpor a quadding fully hasted pet. And they can give the enchanter a much bigger hp pool as well for extra safety.

Clerics simply have more utility at their disposal than a shaman. Shamans biggest thing is
Slow. But this is largely irrelevant with an enchanter. And If you really need malo, just
Invite a mage for mala and superior dps.

It’s really that simple. There’s simply no need for a shaman in this group comp. This is why you see the majority of shamans soloing in the end game.

Complete Heal is better in certain scenarios. Torpor + Slow will work just fine for the vast majority of content this group will be doing. You aren't healing a discing Warrior. It's mostly used to keep the same pet, which can be accomplished by a Shaman tanking. You need to give specific examples of a camp that is unslowable and need a Cleric to CH the pet for survivability purposes.

Stun Command is a great spell, but it has a 30 second cooldown. Shamans can slow the charm break if it's bad, root, or heal. Stuns also don't work on mobs level 55+, so it isn't like you can use it in every scenario.

Slow is not irrelevant when you can slow instead of the Enchanter. It saves them mana, and allows them to cast other spells while you are slowing. More Enchanter mana means the Enchanter can cast more spells in an emergency. Shamans also have a better slow than Enchanters. Same with Malo, Shaman Malo is better than Mage Mala.

Enchanters also do a lot of soloing at 60, that doesn't mean they are bad in groups.

I am still waiting on evidence for these kinds of claims. Again, I am not saying Clerics are bad. They are a great option. You are the one making the claim that Clerics will be far superior, and Shamans can't compete.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...78&postcount=6

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Level a cleric and have people log it in as needed. I have an epic cleric that’s been 54 since 2014 and he has done countless rezzes. Just a phenomenal class that everyone should have at least one of.

Thanks for agreeing with me about pocket Clerics by the way.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am still waiting on evidence for these kinds of claims.

I am still waiting on evidence of your Shaman Root Rotting multiple mobs parallel to your group - and have been waiting on that evidence for nearly a year now.

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

# of posts about Shamans improving the DPS of their group via Root-Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group: tens? hundreds?

# of posts including evidence of such: 0

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The evidence which proves you have made tens? hundreds? of posts claiming that Shamans can improve group DPS by Root Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group - while providing exactly zero evidence that your Shaman has ever done such a thing, much less that it is a common/frequent occurrence - is this entire thread.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am still waiting on evidence of your Shaman Root Rotting multiple mobs parallel to your group - and have been waiting on that evidence for nearly a year now.

I didn't record any of those sessions, so it is up to you whether you believe me or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gdAIheodtY - This is what it looks like for a Shaman to root rot in Velks. You can see it is safe, and wouldn't affect a nearby group. You don't see any evidence of bad pathing, heavy resists, trains, etc.

There would be no difference between this video and a video of me grouping. The group would simply be in a nearby part of the zone.

You are going to claim my evidence isn't valid, but I do have evidence. Unfortunately you cannot claim every piece of evidence someone provides is invalid. That isn't an argument.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't record any of those sessions, so it is up to you whether you believe me or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gdAIheodtY - This is what it looks like for a Shaman to root rot in Velks. You can see it is safe, and wouldn't affect a nearby group. You don't see any evidence of bad pathing, heavy resists, trains, etc.

There would be no difference between this video solo and grouped, the group would simply be in a nearby part of the zone.

You are going to claim my evidence isn't valid, but I do have evidence. Unfortunately you cannot just simply claim every piece of evidence someone provides is invalid. That isn't an argument.

I am not particularly interested in beliefs and you have already shared your beliefs many times in your 1,300+ posts in this thread.

That video you linked is definitely 100% valid evidence of SOLO Root Rotting and naturally Shaman can Root Rot mobs easily (esp. ones that don't summon). It's the doing that while being part of a 4 person priest/caster group containing 2 Encs using Charmed pets & being beneficial / more beneficial than a Mage w/non-Epic pet that I have hard time accepting. You would need to have access to the additional mobs/such mobs have to exist, you'd have to kill the additional mobs while within range of your groupmates in order for them to get experience. This doesn't even mention that MORE mobs have to be available for you to continue to pull 3-6 more of them, and where are those mobs coming from? Is the group pulling/crawling in a direction that ALLOWS you to continue to pull additional mobs and stay in range? This, additionally, is all assuming you are able to handle the mobs without any devastating root breaks, summons, etc. A simple video - provided by you - actually doing this in the relevant environment could settle/answer all of these questions & help lay the issue to rest.

Since your gameplay in that video was SOLO & specifically not in a group in the specific scenario where your Root Rotting is benefitting said group because your Root Rotting is achieving additional kills / experience for the group like you claimed it would/could/does, it is objectively IRRELEVANT evidence, which WOULD/COULD be relevant, if you were simply in a group & improving their DPS via your Root Rotting like your tens? hundreds? of posts fervently claimed it did/does/would/could.

It really wouldn't be hard to prove your group is getting experience from your Root Rotting kills in such a group, as you should in turn be receiving experience from their 2 Enc Pet blender. I don't see the point in your reluctance to comply honestly. If you truly do this Root Rotting method/tactic parallel to the group and - as is obvious - you enjoy recording your gameplay & sharing videos, it seems like you would just simply provide the evidence even if it were just to shut your opposition up lol.

Also, if you DON'T actually do this in groups & were just saying that Shaman the CLASS is theoretically CAPABLE of doing that, where a Mage is not, it would also be fine to just clarify that & I doubt anybody is going to think less of you for it. (I wouldn't.)