SK Race question + item help (have never played a tank)

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've never really needed my max mana when soloing. I fluctuate between like 1.7k and 2k max mana, depending on what's equipped, and I don't notice the difference. FT2 + FT1 + Clickies has been more than enough to keep my mana at safe levels. Not saying I never had "oh shit" moments, but they were rare.

HP isn't a huge issue when you are fear kiting, and with a Fungi or Velious Healing Chestplate you aren't low on HP that long.

HP does let you take hits to give your mana a break, but generally I agree it's not that big of a deal especially if you have some base regen like a fungi. Epic is the best thing you can do for HP. Max mana & mana regen are not mutually exclusive, you should be striving for both. My troll who went STA had about 300ish more HP than An erudite who went INT, but that erudite would have had like 700 more mana which is like 3 drain souls or another 1k hp. 700 more mana paired really good mana regen would also allow you to fear kite significantly longer too.

TLDR - SKs should be prioritizing both INT & mana regen IMO.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TLDR - SKs should be prioritizing both INT & mana regen IMO.

I agree, mana is the bottleneck for Shadowknights. Max HP and Max Mana has diminishing returns in a lot of cases. Just make sure you have enough of both to do whatever content you are currently doing. Past that, focus on other stats. From my experience the racial differences in INT between Ogres/Trolls and Dark Elf/Erudite isn't big enough to worry about most of the time.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TLDR - SKs should be prioritizing both INT & mana regen IMO.

Leveling, especially solo, yeah. Mana bar tends to be the limiting factor in such conditions. It's also typically the limiting factor when acting as a tank for normal XP grind situations. Probably a safe bet for most players and the option I also recommend in such conditions.

For doing tougher stuff at level cap (mostly duo) I prefer AC and get whatever HP I can secondarily. Mana pool is largely a case of, "Whatever I end up with." It's hard to stack enough health to make a good difference against things hitting for hundreds--buys another round, maybe--and there's not enough time to empty a mana bar before dying anyway against that type of opponent. Lowering the average damage roll is the most useful option. Iksar have some appeal in that sense. Innoruuk's Curse, as good as it is, if it has a weakness it's that is has zero AC--a slight annoyance on an otherwise excellent item. I bag it in favor of a shield sometimes when pulling something particularly nasty, until slowed.

On the other hand, it seems apparent by now that few people (at least in-thread) play the way I do, with the luxury of a permanent duo partner. The shadowknight class can do more than most people ask of it, and do it well, but it wants to have other people around.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Leveling, especially solo, yeah. Mana bar tends to be the limiting factor in such conditions. It's also typically the limiting factor when acting as a tank for normal XP grind situations. Probably a safe bet for most players and the option I also recommend in such conditions.

For doing tougher stuff at level cap (mostly duo) I prefer AC and get whatever HP I can secondarily. Mana pool is largely a case of, "Whatever I end up with." It's hard to stack enough health to make a good difference against things hitting for hundreds--buys another round, maybe--and there's not enough time to empty a mana bar before dying anyway against that type of opponent. Lowering the average damage roll is the most useful option. Iksar have some appeal in that sense. Innoruuk's Curse, as good as it is, if it has a weakness it's that is has zero AC--a slight annoyance on an otherwise excellent item. I bag it in favor of a shield sometimes when pulling something particularly nasty, until slowed.

On the other hand, it seems apparent by now that few people (at least in-thread) play the way I do, with the luxury of a permanent duo partner. The shadowknight class can do more than most people ask of it, and do it well, but it wants to have other people around.

When duoing with a Shaman, AC or Resists (depending on situation) are going to end up giving you the best bang for the buck for sure. The main reason why Iksar doesn't matter too much in your case is because if you are a level 60 fighting level 55+ mobs, you are probably at the AC softcap already with your gear. You really aren't getting much out of the Iksar specific bonus. It's best when you are poorly geared, or Monk/Necromancer.

I don't like relying on weapons for Resistance bonus (like Greenmist), because weapons are often swapped out depending on situation. It's better to just have a resistance weapon like Axe of Resistance you swap to when the mob is casting a spell, and switch back to your DPS weapon afterwards.

[Danth]

AC returns overcap appear to be greater on P99 than they were on live, demonstrated by all parsing that I've seen since the 2015 AC revamp. In this case, it's best to regard P99 as somewhat custom.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

AC returns overcap appear to be greater on P99 than they were on live, demonstrated by all parsing that I've seen since the 2015 AC revamp. In this case, it's best to regard P99 as somewhat custom.

Do you have some data we can look at? I would be interested to see the differences.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What I found interesting was how little difference there was between the dark elf and ogre for agi/dex - where did you put the ogres starting stats?

The Dark Elf did a good job making up the stamina deficit - there is only 168 health difference and this is closed further if there are shaman buffs around. The difference is also made up a bit when in sword and board mode - (the ogre would be assumed to be about 50 hp down on that slot due to using clay guardian or atramentous). The extra mana reservoir on the dark elf is very impressive, though honestly I'm not sure how useful it would be (again my sk is a 52 troll - he doesn't really struggle that much with running out of mana, but perhaps I've just adapted to his mana pool).

The dark elf strength is appalling and will be a handicap if trying to solo, where the character's dps is quite important.

For both examples I just added 20 stamina; it’s not ideal for an end game ogre but just trying to keep the comparison accurate. The final hps and mana on the magelo might be a bit off. The stats though should be accurate per the gear. Normally 50 Stam difference at 60 on a knight is 260hps (5.2hp/sta). In this case though the ogre overcaps and the DE under caps since 205 is the magic number.

Mixing in a bit of high end raid gear it’s not impossible to cap stamina even on an elf. My eru paladin started with 20 str (lol…long ago) so 70 stamina. The unbuffed Str though is tough to increase since a lot mid-tier tank gear doesn’t have any and SK’s closest equivalent to Yaulp4 (40 str) is Siphon Strength and maybe a Dark Reaver proc. I would bring up the Greenmist strength steal proc but JFC let’s just not [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you have some data we can look at? I would be interested to see the differences.

You'd have to look it up between here, Discord, etc. I'm not interested enough to try to find 8 years' worth of posts.

With respect to stamina, if you want to "cheat" at it a bit you can stack alchemy potions for another 50 total beyond the 50 a shaman gives. Just about anyone can max that statistic out if he really wants to. The ogre (and troll to a lesser extent) is nice for having the higher baseline so he'll have that cushion fulltime, not just when stacking for specific encounters.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You'd have to look it up between here, Discord, etc. I'm not interested enough to try to find 8 years' worth of posts.

With respect to stamina, if you want to "cheat" at it a bit you can stack alchemy potions for another 50 total beyond the 50 a shaman gives. Just about anyone can max that statistic out if he really wants to. The ogre (and troll to a lesser extent) is nice for having the higher baseline so he'll have that cushion fulltime, not just when stacking for specific encounters.

It's also nice to reduce the number of buffs you need, since we are capped at 15 buffs. You can't always fit an alchemy potion buff in.

[greatdane]

Maximum mana almost never means anything. Aside from raiding clerics and quad-kiting wizards/druids, there's almost never a situation where a few hundred extra to the depth of your mana pool would have made any difference. Either you're not outspending your regeneration, in which case it doesn't matter; or you are outspending your regeneration, in which case you never sit at full mana anyway and the ultimate maximum is irrelevant. As a hybrid, there will practically never be a situation where you go from full mana to OOM in one single fight and would have benefitted so much from even more mana that you'd have traded, say, HP or resists for it. The game just doesn't generally work that way. The size of one's mana pool only matters when you need a full mana bar for a single encounter and are fucked if you run out before it's over. That's basically just clerics in a CH chain, and quad-kiters.