Enchanter vs Shaman. Who is the better money maker? - Page 6

sajbert · #51 01-07-2023, 06:29 AM

Enchanter can hit the biggest cash prizes.

Enchanters are better at breaking into dungeons.

Enchanters are strictly better than shamans until they get Torpor and arguably require good gear as well. Thus until at least Kunark enchanters are strictly better. You don’t need to invest all that pp into your farming character either.

Shamans are not, despite what silly things DSM may say, good sustained DPS killers like a mage. This type of farming is typically risk free and doesn’t involve corpse runs and you don’t have to spend weeks in EC auctioning your goods (something that most never take into account when discussing pp/hr. However, it also means you have few or no AFK-breaks but gotta attend your computer all the time. Tedium…

IMO: Shamans are poor farming characters but great mains that can fuel much of their own progression. If you want to level a character to make money for other characters then make an enchanter.

Snaggles · #52 01-07-2023, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread is making me wonder what class can kill droga goblins the fastest. My bard shreds them too -- aoe snare several (exactly how many is a bit of a gear check) and aoe kite them down.

Rlaeil is a geared monk with a Facesmasher. He’s made over 1m pp in Droga. I expect there are other classes who can pace with one (rogues can assassinate, warriors with Vulak axe, etc). But high burst, self haste, and 6 min mend are tough to beat. Really grind will power is the most important thing…clocking in every day for that many hours isn’t fun, lol.

PL_Barton · #53 01-07-2023, 10:12 AM

Off the main topic but:

Of all the classes discussed but in Droga the Epic Mage has the highest ROI. All other classes involve a lot more effort.

I just walk into a room, sic the pet on the closest and then tab through the rest. Wait for him to finish, stand up and loot. Next room. Only things to watch is your burnout timer and the pets health if you get more than 4 mobs at once, even then its a easy chain summon.

DeathsSilkyMist · #54 01-07-2023, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shamans are not, despite what silly things DSM may say, good sustained DPS killers like a mage.

What I am saying is not silly. I think people just don't really take into account the other factors that go in to playing Everquest. I'll admit that I often try and give the quick explanation (which isn't fully detailed), and people don't end up reading the longer ones when I miss something in the quick explaination.

Let me try a simpler example. For the life of me I cannot find a lot of Mage videos. Here is a video of a mage killing Oosa Shadowthumper:

https://youtu.be/jhm9K-ePJAk?t=372

It takes him from 6:12 to 7:38 to kill the mob. He is spending 175 Mana on a single Scars of Sigil, 300 Mana on Vocarate: Earth, 155 mana on Cadeau of Flame, and 150 mana on Burnout IV.

Here is a log of me killing the same mob with just what a level 56 Shaman would have spell wise. I am not using Epic, just JBB. I made a video too if people really want to see it:

It took my Shaman from 07:05:03 to 07:06:25. Time-wise, the kill speeds are basically identical (1:28 vs 1:22). From a DPS perspective, that means a 56 Shaman can keep up with a 56 Mage. How is the sustain?

The Mage will spend 780 mana per kill, which means it takes almost 4 minutes to fully med back the mana.

The Shaman will spend 675 mana per kill on Turgur's Insects + Bane of Nife. The mob did 487 damage to me, and the pet can eat the HT. If you factor in the initial cost of the pet + 4 regrowths, that is 1900 mana over an hour (assuming no pet deaths), which would add a cost of 32 mana per minute. So basically 730 mana and 500 damage per kill. That would take closer to 4 minutes to meditate/regenerate back.

As you can see, a level 56 Shaman could keep up with a level 56 Mage when fighting mobs of similar stats with JBB, Spirit of Howler, Bane of Nife, and Turgurs Insects. Obviously at level 60 Mages get stronger pets, and Droga mobs are lower level than Oosa, but honestly people wouldn't even believe a level 56 Shaman could keep up DPS-wise with a Mage if they didn't see the numbers.

Unfortunately I simply don't have any raw data from a Mage in Droga to get exact kill speeds per hour. When grinding out greens you are looking at kills per hour. A 60 Shaman with Torpor and Epic is going to be able to kill and move more often than a Mage since they don't have to Med, albeit at a slower speed. I would be curious to know how many kills per hour a Mage can get (without Epic since it is just really hard to get). Then I can do the same on my Shaman and we can get a better picture of the actual differences. I am pretty certain an Epic Pet could chew through Droga way faster since they don't have to backstab, but solo Mage DPS without Epic is lower since you can't backstab.

Ripqozko · #55 01-07-2023, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What I am saying is not silly. I think people just don't really take into account the other factors that go in to playing Everquest. I'll admit that I often try and give the quick explanation (which isn't fully detailed), and people don't end up reading the longer ones when I miss something in the quick explaination.

Let me try a simpler example. For the life of me I cannot find a lot of Mage videos. Here is a video of a mage killing Oosa Shadowthumper:

https://youtu.be/jhm9K-ePJAk?t=372

It takes him from 6:12 to 7:38 to kill the mob. He is spending 175 Mana on a single Scars of Sigil, 300 Mana on Vocarate: Earth, 155 mana on Cadeau of Flame, and 150 mana on Burnout IV.

Here is a log of me killing the same mob with just what a level 56 Shaman would have spell wise. I am not using Epic, just JBB. I made a video too if people really want to see it:

It took my Shaman from 07:05:03 to 07:06:25. Time-wise, the kill speeds are basically identical (1:28 vs 1:22). From a DPS perspective, that means a 56 Shaman can keep up with a 56 Mage. How is the sustain?

The Mage will spend 780 mana per kill, which means it takes almost 4 minutes to fully med back the mana.

The Shaman will spend 675 mana per kill on Turgur's Insects + Bane of Nife. The mob did 487 damage to me, and the pet can eat the HT. If you factor in the initial cost of the pet + 4 regrowths, that is 1900 mana over an hour (assuming no pet deaths), which would add a cost of 32 mana per minute. So basically 730 mana and 500 damage per kill. That would take closer to 4 minutes to meditate/regenerate back.

As you can see, a level 56 Shaman could keep up with a level 56 Mage when fighting mobs of similar stats with JBB, Spirit of Howler, Bane of Nife, and Turgurs Insects. Obviously at level 60 Mages get stronger pets, and Droga mobs are lower level than Oosa, but honestly people wouldn't even believe a level 56 Shaman could keep up DPS-wise with a Mage if they didn't see the numbers.

Unfortunately I simply don't have any raw data from a Mage in Droga to get exact kill speeds per hour. When grinding out greens you are looking at kills per hour. A 60 Shaman with Torpor and Epic is going to be able to kill and move more often than a Mage since they don't have to Med, albeit at a slower speed. I would be curious to know how many kills per hour a Mage can get (without Epic since it is just really hard to get). Then I can do the same on my Shaman and we can get a better picture of the actual differences.

Ah shit, here we go again.

Crede · #56 01-07-2023, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread is making me wonder what class can kill droga goblins the fastest. My bard shreds them too -- aoe snare several (exactly how many is a bit of a gear check) and aoe kite them down.

I’d say an abashi monk would be the fastest followed by an epic mage with velk boots.

DeathsSilkyMist · #57 01-07-2023, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’d say an abashi monk would be the fastest followed by an epic mage with velk boots.

I'd agree with that assesment. I would be curious to know if the stun from the Epic Pet would give it a bit of an edge over the monk, since many goblins do heal, which slows you down.

Castle2.0 · #58 01-07-2023, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In more precise terms, the DPS difference is closer to 83 vs 95 when taking into account the extra meditating a Mage needs to do because they can't sit down while spamming the Boots.

Hahaha, guys, my fellow autist number cruncher doesn't know you CAN sit while casting the boots! Just make sure you stand before it's done casting [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Snaggles · #59 01-07-2023, 02:47 PM

OP, do you have a 60 necro?

Why not try farming Droga and factioning up? At that point try a few camps.

I mainly mentioned mowing down greens as that is one path to make plat and pet classes do well there. Mages can’t really put down tough targets but necros can.

Unless you want to make a sham for more group fun or an ench for that or solo superiority, necros can do very well. Charm, fear, dot rot. Tank/tap. So many options.

PatChapp · #60 01-07-2023, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hahaha, guys, my fellow autist number cruncher doesn't know you CAN sit while casting the boots! Just make sure you stand before it's done casting [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They got rid of that on green months ago,is it still possible on blue?