Best 4 person all caster/priest group - Page 296

Troxx · #**2951** 09-14-2022, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody has argued Mages aren't a DPS class. The question is how much their DPS matters when looking at a four man group.

Answer: it’s a whole heck of a lot more than a dps shaman

PlsNoBan · #**2952** 09-14-2022, 11:10 PM

Guys shamans can do ixiblat and ww dragons. Definitely makes the most sense to base your entire group 1-60 around that. Don't you understand?

DeathsSilkyMist · #**2953** 09-14-2022, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I doubt you "made a mistake" here in the way you're framing it. It's rather more likely your thinly veiled attempts at trolling backfired upon you, rather than you "misreading".

If we didn't need another hint at your disgusting behaviour, then I guess you can just melt this one down and add it to the others.

This is what I am talking about. You are rage posting. You have no intention of acting like a rational human being here.

You need to take a break. You aren't forwarding the conversation, and you just can't let this go.

If you want me to stop posting, you need to bring some evidence, instead of just rage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Guys shamans can do ixiblat and ww dragons. Definitely makes the most sense to base your entire group 1-60 around that. Don't you understand?

I said on page 1 if you want to focus more on the 1-60 leveling a Mage is better. I am looking at the entire play experience, including level 60 item farming. I am not sure what the problem here is lol.

I just think it isn't wise to focus too hard on leveling 1-60, because a 4 man caster group is going to power through that really fast anyway.

Troxx · #**2954** 09-14-2022, 11:11 PM

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4 more pages!

#300

cyxthryth · #**2955** 09-14-2022, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am going where the data leads

What - relevant to this discussion - data might that be?

As I have already stated to you, it is not always clear to other posters just exactly what particular position/stance/claim/"argument"(s) you are attempting to defend at any given time - due to how often you have moved goalposts and edited your posts - so, for the sake of civil discussion, please let us know what your current stance is and what - factual, relevant - evidence you have provided that supports it. This really isn't hard hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and right now the Mage simply isn't offering any more kills per hour. Nobody has been able to show any other benefit to DPS other than kills per hour and safety.

More/higher DPS offers faster kill times, and this has already been stated to you multiple times by multiple posters. Ignoring it will not make it go away hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shamans cover the safety part and offer more camp options. I am really not sure why this is such a problem.

The problem - which has already been pointed out to you multiple times by multiple posters in this thread - would be that much of what the Shaman offers is largely redundant in a group that already has sufficient safety in the form of Cleric & Enchanter Crowd Control including the ability to Mez, AOE Mez, Stun, AOE Stun, Root, Pacify, AOE Pacify, and Memblur/Atone, Enchanter hp shields like Rune spells or Berserker Spirit/Bedlam, and Cleric Healing, Buffs & Rez. I am not really sure why your posts seemingly - repeatedly - attempt to ignore this hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gloomlord · #**2956** 09-14-2022, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is what I am talking about. You are rage posting. You have no intention of acting like a rational human being here.

You need to take a break. You aren't forwarding the conversation, and you just can't let this go.

If you want me to stop posting, you need to bring some evidence, instead of just rage.

I said on page 1 if you want to focus more on the 1-60 leveling a Mage is better. I am looking at the entire play experience, including level 60 item farming. I am not sure what the problem here is lol.

I just think it isn't wise to focus too hard on leveling 1-60, because a 4 man caster group is going to power through that really fast anyway.

DSM: "Oh, shit! He's onto me! Uh uh uh, what do I think of? Oh yeah! Rage posting! Brilliant!"

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Gloomlord · #**2957** 09-14-2022, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Answer: it’s a whole heck of a lot more than a dps shaman

DSM: "PROVE IT!"

What an idiot!

Troxx · #**2958** 09-14-2022, 11:15 PM

Requiem for the sane:

No class is broken. Some like Druids and wizards suffer more than most. Shamans are BETTER than most … MOST of the time.

But this thread is thrifty! It is obscene! It makes us battle to the death choosing the best of FOUR amongst a sea of greatness!

Unfortunately we have DSM. He needs help. ABA? Yes! Autism dating services for adults? Yes if he wants. No if he prefers his sock.

What are we to do?

I am at a loss…

DeathsSilkyMist · #**2959** 09-14-2022, 11:16 PM

Please ignore PlsNoBan, Troxx, Cyxthryth, Gloomlord, Karanis, Toxigen, Ripqozko, cd288, and Chortles Snortles in this thread. They are just trolling. They have accumulated almost 1000 posts that are literally just memes and insults between them. They shouldn't since this isn't RnF, but they seem to enjoy being silly in this thread.

Reposting the current state of the discussion:

Thanks for the logs Allishia! It is much easier to do parsing this way. Based on the logs the Epic Pet is doing 80-90 DPS. For strong manning the argument, I will use a 90 DPS parse that also had a good number of damage shield hits. This is a mana dumping situation, not a situation where you are conserving mana between fights:

======Mage DPS Parse======

In the logs the pet is confirmed to have Burnout IV and a Muzzle.

Pet DPS Parse:

Pet Damage: 3805 in 42 seconds = 90.6 DPS

Scars of Sigil Parse:

Scars of Sigil Damage: 3150 in 42 seconds = 75 DPS

======Epic Mage DPS No Damage Shield======

3805 in 42 seconds = 90.6 DPS

3150 in 42 seconds = 75 DPS for 1225 mana in 14 seconds (no specialization bonus due to spell being Evocation) 1225 - 200 mana from meditate = 1025 mana lost in the minute.

6955 in 42 seconds = 165.6 DPS

======Shaman DPS Parse======

In the logs the pet is confirmed to have Celerity, Maniacal Strength, and Focus of Spirit.

Pet DPS Parse:

Pet Damage: 940 in 42 seconds = 22.4 DPS

Bane of Nife Damage: 150 + (214 x 6) = 1434 for 425 mana in 5 seconds

Ice Strike Damage : 675 x 4 = 2700 for 1000 mana in 28 seconds

======Shaman DPS No Damage Shield======

940 in 42 seconds = 22.4 DPS

4134 in 42 seconds = 98.4 DPS for 1425 mana - 416 mana cannibalized back (Torpor specialization bonus) in 27 seconds = 1009 mana lost in the minute.

5074 in 42 seconds = 120.8 DPS

======DPS Difference without Damage Shield======

Difference without Damage Shield = 165.6 DPS - 120.8 DPS = 44.8 DPS while both the Shaman and Mage spend 1000 mana total

======Damage Shield======

Damage Shield Parse:

======DPS Difference with Damage Shield======

Subtracting 11 from the Damage Shield number. The assumption is there will be an Enchanter in the party, which means you will always have a minimum damage shield of 11 via Feedback.

DPS added by damage shield, assuming Epic Pet is Tanking: (50 - 11) x 24 / 42 = 22.3 DPS

DPS added by damage shield on slowed mob, assuming Epic Pet is Tanking: (50 - 11) x (24 * 0.3) / 42 = 6.7 DPS

DPS added by cast damage shield, assuming Epic Pet is not Tanking: (33 - 11) x 24 / 42 = 12.5 DPS

DPS added by cast damage shield on slowed mob, assuming Epic Pet is not Tanking: (33 - 11) x (24 * 0.3) / 42 = 3.8 DPS

Difference with Damage Shield = 48.6-67.1 DPS, depending on slow/tanking situation.

======DPS Difference in the Four Man Group======

The two groups are going to be Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Shaman and Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Mage.

According to Troxx's data, the average DPS a level 47 charmed pet with Enchanter haste and a Torch was doing 86 DPS.

If two Enchanters are in the group, the DPS is 86 (Enchanter) + 86 (Enchanter) + 120.8 (Shaman) + 6.3 (Enchanter Damage Shield) = 299.1 DPS

If two Enchanters are in the group, the DPS is 86 (Enchanter) + 86 (Enchanter) + 165.6 (Mage) + 18.8 (Mage Damage Shield) = 356.4 DPS with a Shaman.

DPS Difference in the Four Man Group = 57.3 DPS

======DPS Breakpoints in the Four Man Group======

This is assuming the group is killing a mob with 8000 HP. The mob in the Mage parse had 8000 HP when you include the damage shield damage.

8000 HP / 299.1 DPS = 26.75 seconds per kill.

8000 HP / 356.4 DPS = 22.45 seconds per kill.

DPS Difference in kill speed = 4.3 seconds

It turns out both sides were right. At least Epic Mages are doing higher DPS than Troxx's data, but the extra DPS doesn't really matter when looking at the breakpoints.

For reference, Fungi King has 17750 HP according to the wiki. That means a group with a Shaman is killing him in 59.3 seconds, and a group with a mage is killing him in 49.8 seconds. That means you are saving a grand total of 9.5 seconds per Fungi King/PH kill. You would kill Fungi King (1620 seconds respawn / 9.5 second saved) = 170 times in a row to get an extra spawn. That is 85 hours continuously camping the mob.

We don't have raw log data for a focused level 60 water pet, which will be much more common. Therefore I cannot currently confirm the DPS difference between a normal Mage and an Epic Mage. Right now Troxx's data is all we have for the level 60 Water Pet, which is lower than the Epic Pet.

It is up to the reader to decide if they think 4.3 seconds per kill is worth losing all the utility a Shaman has to offer. This is if choosing an Epic Mage over a Shaman in a four man group where you are choosing between Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Mage or Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Shaman.

I do agree with OP's choice of Necromancer/Enchanter/Shaman/Mage. With this combination you have maximum access to all camps via these classes utility, while hitting the DPS threshold. You could level up a pocket cleric for easier resing and CHing if you desire, you only need to level it to 49 for 90% res and CH.

Troxx · #**2960** 09-14-2022, 11:16 PM

DSM:

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How can we help this lil guy?