Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Troxx]

Torpor is only good because the class that can use it can cannibalize their hp into mana and turn that mana efficiently back into health that can be cannibalized yet again. That same class can also slow mobs, take quite a few hits … etc. It is the shaman paradigm that makes Torpor so game breakingly useful. We’ll … that and the only other non-cleric priest is stuck spending 400 mana for a 900hp heal vs low mana for a 1200-1500hp heal over time depending on luck and server ticks.

Beyond that torpor is actually annoying due to snare and slow effects.

That’s the funny thing about this thread. 100% of people here agree that shamans are insanely good. Beyond any doubt.

They just aren’t a contender for “best 4 man caster/priest only group”. They are nowhere near the worst.

If you said “best 4 man caster/priest only group where you can’t bring a cleric”? Sure, if the shaman is 60 and has torpor otherwise Druids become more viable.

If you said “best 4 man caster/priest only group where you can’t bring a enchanter”? Absolutely, without a doubt.

But with cleric healing (it is undeniably superior) and enchanter utility (again undeniably superior and overlaps with all critical utility functions) … shaman just doesn’t have a leg to stand on other than 55 combined shaman/pet dps.

I am glad you settled on a reasonable 55dps number DSM. That is a number I can actually get behind and believe when it’s the only thing you’re focusing on doing.

It is also incidentally worse than an unfocused level 60 water pet by itself … and even further behind a focused 60 water pet or epic pet.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Torpor is only good because the class that can use it can cannibalize their hp into mana and turn that mana efficiently back into health that can be cannibalized yet again. That same class can also slow mobs, take quite a few hits … etc. It is the shaman paradigm that makes Torpor so game breakingly useful. We’ll … that and the only other non-cleric priest is stuck spending 400 mana for a 900hp heal vs low mana for a 1200-1500hp heal over time depending on luck and server ticks.

Beyond that torpor is actually annoying due to snare and slow effects.

That’s the funny thing about this thread. 100% of people here agree that shamans are insanely good. Beyond any doubt.

They just aren’t a contender for “best 4 man caster/priest only group”. They are nowhere near the worst.

If you said “best 4 man caster/priest only group where you can’t bring a cleric”? Sure, if the shaman is 60 and has torpor otherwise Druids become more viable.

If you said “best 4 man caster/priest only group where you can’t bring a enchanter”? Absolutely, without a doubt.

But with cleric healing (it is undeniably superior) and enchanter utility (again undeniably superior and overlaps with all critical utility functions) … shaman just doesn’t have a leg to stand on other than 55 combined shaman/pet dps.

I am glad you settled on a reasonable 55dps number DSM. That is a number I can actually get behind and believe when it’s the only thing you’re focusing on doing.

It is also incidentally worse than an unfocused level 60 water pet by itself … and even further behind a focused 60 water pet or epic pet.

The 55 DPS number is assuming you are only chain pulling, and the group isn't allowing the Shaman to root/rot. Thank you for admitting my data is valid, though. This means you agree you can get DPS numbers outside of grouping.

A Shaman can do more DPS on any targets that take a minute or longer to kill, due to having DoTs.

A Shaman can do 150 DPS or more root rotting, and JimJam supported me when he said he saw a Shaman root/rotting Velk spiders in a group.

The issue is people keep trying to force the conversation down the narrow path that a level 60 group is simply chain pulling trash in Seb, and the Shaman can't root/rot. Of course the Shaman is going to have their DPS minimized in this very specific scenario.

The reality is DPS breakpoints exist, and the Mage is simply not giving you any more kills per hour with the extra DPS they provide in an Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Mage combination. A Shaman will open up more camp options than a Mage, while also providing more safety and adequate DPS.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

reality

Reposting the current state of the discussion:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP never said you couldn't have a pocket cleric. I am not sure why people keep thinking this is not a possible route to take. Between four people it would be trivial to level a cleric to 39. It is pretty common for people to make pocket clerics on P99.

DSM attempted to move the goalposts by bringing a 5th "pocket" character into his "arguments" (even though this is intended to be a civil discussion - not an argument) pertaining to the "Best 4 person all caster/priest group" discussion.

Of course - speaking strictly mathematically - 4=/=5, so it is unclear why DSM has attempted to bring this 5th character into the equation or why his posts would seem to indicate that believes doing so is not an example of him moving goalposts - when it objectively is - hehe.