Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A few people have agreed with my overall points such as Danth, Kich867, and W1zard. Not that this matters, since the number of people who agree with you is irrelevant.

Currently I have data backing up my points, and you do not. Youu are indeed more likely to be wrong statistically. This is especially true since nobody has bothered providing more data. The Mage data isn't coming from me, so it isn't like I faked it to try and make my argument look good.

Also you are 100% fine with having a preference, nobody is forcing you to prefer one or the other. But if you want to talk in more objective terms, that is different.

Lol you actually think they agreed with your overall points [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is no "data" that backs your point of preferring redundant utility to DPS. Such data does not and can not exist. I've said multiple times (dating back to my first post in this thread) that the hypothetical 4 best caster/priest group is without question Enc/Enc/Enc/Clr. I only got into this mage vs shaman debacle when you started making outlandish statements about how shaman was better and did as much damage or whatever you said initially. Which I think we've unequivocally proven false at this point. Even by your own data shaman does considerably less damage than mage. At this point you're just grasping on tight to "B.. b... but muh utility?! What about SAFETY?!?" talking point to justify your shaman preference cause you've admitted defeat on the shaman dps argument (thank god). The problem is shaman utility is nearly useless in this group assuming the enchanters and cleric are played by competent players. But as was said before this WHOLE DISCUSSION is assuming the player behind the keyboard is competent and knows how to play their class. Any competent group of 2+ enchanters and a cleric has absolutely no need whatsoever for a shaman. They don't need a 3rd person casting slow. A mage can cover malo. Your dots are meaningless. There isn't enough damage going around to have a need for more than a single cleric for healing output. The cleric also has permanent C2 and if bringing a mage or necro then mod rods/twitches. I don't see any reason to jam a shaman into this group where it's not needed or anywhere near the best choice.

Basically at this point the only logical point you can make is this: Shaman is a solid choice if you want to have a subpar class for 1-60 (a long ass time) and after extensive grinding and clicky/spell acquisition it becomes almost as good as other classes for the group and it allows you to do a couple niche fights you would have a harder time doing otherwise like Ixiblat and WW Dragons. Everything else you're saying is absolute bullshit.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I love when DSM writes comments like this. Because he literally describes himself while mocking someone else lol

Except it isn't.

I have data to back up my points, where other people just keep saying "You are wrong because everyone else says so". The post history is pretty clear.

I am not mocking people. I am just telling them how it is. You can look back at their posts if you don't believe it.

[Ripqozko]

DSM will never quit posting to "prove he is right", 200 pages easy. he will just keep telling you to let it go so he can feel superior.

[PlsNoBan]

The color red is better than the color green. My data backs up my points. Everyone else is using fallacies with no evidence. The post history is pretty clear. Everyone just calls me autistic when I act autistic and therefore red is better than green. Data.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol you actually think they agreed with your overall points [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is no "data" that backs your point of preferring redundant utility to DPS. Such data does not and can not exist. I've said multiple times (dating back to my first post in this thread) that the hypothetical 4 best caster/priest group is without question Enc/Enc/Enc/Clr. I only got into this mage vs shaman debacle when you started making outlandish statements about how shaman was better and did as much damage or whatever you said initially. Which I think we've unequivocally proven false at this point. Even by your own data shaman does considerably less damage than mage. At this point you're just grasping on tight to "B.. b... but muh utility?! What about SAFETY?!?" talking point to justify your shaman preference cause you've admitted defeat on the shaman dps argument (thank god). The problem is shaman utility is nearly useless in this group assuming the enchanters and cleric are played by competent players. But as was said before this WHOLE DISCUSSION is assuming the player behind the keyboard is competent and knows how to play their class. Any competent group of 2+ enchanters and a cleric has absolutely no need whatsoever for a shaman. They don't need a 3rd person casting slow. A mage can cover malo. Your dots are meaningless. There isn't enough damage going around to have a need for more than a single cleric for healing output. The cleric also has permanent C2 and if bringing a mage or necro then mod rods/twitches. I don't see any reason to jam a shaman into this group where it's not needed or anywhere near the best choice.

Basically at this point the only logical point you can make is this: Shaman is a solid choice if you want to have a subpar class for 1-60 (a long ass time) and after extensive grinding and clicky/spell acquisition it becomes almost as good as other classes for the group and it allows you to do a couple niche fights you would have a harder time doing otherwise like Ixiblat and WW Dragons. Everything else you're saying is absolute bullshit.

Again, you clearly haven't read what I have been saying if this is what you think.

Nobody ever said Shamans do more DPS than Mages. The only reason why you think that is because I showed a Shaman can match or exceed Mage DPS when root/rotting multiple mobs (which you can do in a group). I am not sure where you think I admitted defeat on that.

My whole point has always been that based on the data, a Mage is bringing only 20-30 DPS over a Shaman. So you are trading a small amount of DPS for a large amount of utility. Honestly you know that utility and safety is useful. It is why you bring a Cleric and use the utility of an Enchanter to survive. You also know that redundant spells are good. It is why having multiple stun casters is better than one.

It would be easy to piece these things together logically if you weren't unreasonably mad at me for no reason.

A Shaman offers a much broader toolkit and opens up more camps for a small loss in DPS. A group of 4 casters is going to level fast, whether you have a Mage or not.

It is up to your preference to decide whether you want a slightly faster leveling experience at the cost of the Mage being less useful in the end.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, you clearly haven't read what I have been saying if this is what you think.

Nobody ever said Shamans do more DPS than Mages. The only reason why you think that is because I showed a Shaman can match or exceed Mage DPS when root/rotting multiple mobs (which you can do in a group). I am not sure where you think I admitted defeat on that.

My whole point has always been that based on the data, a Mage is bringing only 20-30 DPS over a Shaman. So you are trading a small amount of DPS for a large amount of utility. Honestly you know that utility and safety is useful. It is why you bring a Cleric and use the utility of an Enchanter to survive. You also know that redundant spells are good. It is why having multiple stun casters is better than one.

It would be easy to piece these things together logically if you weren't unreasonably mad at me for no reason.

A Shaman offers a much broader toolkit and opens up more camps for a small loss in DPS. A group of 4 casters is going to level fast, whether you have a Mage or not.

It is up to your preference to decide whether you want a slightly faster leveling experience at the cost of the Mage being less useful in the end.

I notice you keep referring to it as "30 dps" and not "50% more dps than shaman". That's odd. Cause to me it appears you're trading 50% more dps for a bunch of redundant unnecessary utility. Utility and safety ARE important. That's why you have multiple enchanters covering eachothers charm breaks and a cleric to heal. What the fuck do you need a shaman for? Should we add 2 shamans while we're at it? Obviously in your fucked head utility and heals can be stacked infinitely and don't lose any effectiveness right? Fuck it 6 shamans best group in all of norrath!

[PlsNoBan]

DSM do you think about shamans when you touch yourself at night?

Asking for a friend

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I notice you keep referring to it as "30 dps" and not "50% more dps than shaman". That's odd. Cause to me it appears you're trading 50% more dps for a bunch of redundant unnecessary utility. Utility and safety ARE important. That's why you have multiple enchanters covering eachothers charm breaks and a cleric to heal. What the fuck do you need a shaman for? Should we add 2 shamans while we're at it? Obviously in your fucked head utility and heals can be stacked infinitely and don't lose any effectiveness right? Fuck it 6 shamans best group in all of norrath!

It's 20-30 DPS, depending on the situation. 50% sounds good, but the actual number is still 20-30 DPS, which is a pretty small amount, and the 20 is only 25%. Saying "Bobs DPS is double that of Joe's DPS" sounds good until you learn Bob's DPS is 4 and Joe's DPS is 2.

The 30 DPS difference only occurs when you are in the very specific situation where your group is chain pulling mobs that die in 30 seconds and for some reason you refuse to allow your Shaman to root rot. I am still waiting to learn where this magical camp is.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DSM will never quit posting to "prove he is right", 200 pages easy. he will just keep telling you to let it go so he can feel superior.

lol he’s at nearly 600 posts, there’s like two people with two hundred, one with 100. Nearly 600 posts in a single thread! A ton of which are like five paragraph essays. Dude could’ve written and published a novel at this point with how many words he’s typed lol

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol he’s at nearly 600 posts, there’s like two people with two hundred, one with 100. Nearly 600 posts in a single thread! A ton of which are like five paragraph essays. Dude could’ve written and published a novel at this point with how many words he’s typed lol

I'll take my post history over the 500+ combined posts that are just memes/insults. Spreading the trolling around to multiple users doesn't make it less silly. At least I am trying to have a conversation, unlike yourself.