Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Troxx]

Indeed … for all relevant discussions thus far we are assuming the player is paying attention and understands (at a minimum) the very basics of their class to a high level of proficiency and is operating thusly.


Some of us here have played most major classes aggressively to 60

Others have a level 60 shaman, 59 sk, and a few scrub alts but think they are lord Jesus divinely inspired to educate the rest of us on math/logic/evidence.

(Lookin at you DSM)

I am only hopeful his posting reprieve is him at a high level camp with a high dps crew trying to dps on his shaman.

But he isn’t. We all know it.

I hate to admit it but over the last 22-23 years I’m pretty sure I’ve logged 5x more total hours played in EQ than DSM and at least 1000x more hours actually parsing and understanding this game we all love. Pathetic right?

But unlike this other fuck-monkey I actually have undergraduate bachelors in math, statistics, biomedical sciences and physics … and a doctorate in medicine with another 3 years post doctorate in higher education.

These days I do patient care and publish statistics and other BS in major medical journals.

[Troxx]

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Prove us all wrong DSM. My mind is wide open to be changed. Put in the sweat equity and prove to me otherwise and I’ll concede.

Otherwise you’re just a try-hard, blow-hard cherry picking whatever “data” supports your agenda.

You will notice that Danth went silent. One of the few allies you had and for whom I have the utmost respect. He knows me. I know him. Great guy but in the end he and I both know you gotta actually do the leg work to prove a dang thing.

Ps: on live I only submitted parses at least 2-3 hours long.

PPS: here can’t box so more wild cards

Nut up shut up. As much as I would like to giggle this thread all the way to 200 pages this is a failboat for you. For me? Im having fun. Let’s take it to 300!

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Indeed … for all relevant discussions thus far we are assuming the player is paying attention and understands (at a minimum) the very basics of their class to a high level of proficiency and is operating thusly.


Some of us here have played most major classes aggressively to 60

Others have a level 60 shaman, 59 sk, and a few scrub alts but think they are lord Jesus divinely inspired to educate the rest of us on math/logic/evidence.

(Lookin at you DSM)

I am only hopeful his posting reprieve is him at a high level camp with a high dps crew trying to dps on his shaman.

But he isn’t. We all know it.

I hate to admit it but over the last 22-23 years I’m pretty sure I’ve logged 5x more total hours played in EQ than DSM and at least 1000x more hours actually parsing and understanding this game we all love. Pathetic right?

But unlike this other fuck-monkey I actually have undergraduate bachelors in math, statistics, biomedical sciences and physics … and a doctorate in medicine with another 3 years post doctorate in higher education.

These days I do patient care and publish statistics and other BS in major medical journals.

DSM Data/Math > You tho

[Troxx]

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Don’t copy and paste and old post. I challenge you to contribute something new! If done right you WILL use a parse program (grounded in math/logic) to not flood us all with 3 thousand line crap spam. Smarter weiners than you made them. They work excellently if you know where the break points are.

With shaman ass crap pet, knowledge of torpor and canni IV mechanics … I know PRECISELY how you will perform.

Remember… I have played a 60 shaman through the full scope of this game. I already know the answer. I have the epic and the same spells as you. My alts gear is inferior but for this marathon stress test I promise it won’t matter. It won’t fit your agenda I promise. You will be disappointed.

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[Troxx]

We all know you won’t because:

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Mages are not gods. Shamans are UNDENIABLY BETTER! We all know this. But in this specific case you have insisted shamans can dps like mages. We all know this to be bullshit with lightning blue lipstick! In this theoretical situation shamans add nothing profitable. Shamans ARE NOT equivalent or even same ball park dps. You will fall flat on your face even trying. Your “utility” is redundant and needless. Your pet is garbage.

Shaman (for once cause GOD DAMN we all agree they are always great) need not apply. Sorry Charlie. Burden is on you. I follow on with my very first post which is still 100% relevant and accurate.

From page fucking 3 of this dumpster fire:

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cleric and ench duo are already wickedly OP. Add a second ench for 2nd pet and backup cc and it’s that much easier. So yeah 3/4 are spoken for.

Remaining options:

-druid (lol no)

-wizard (lol even more no)

-shaman: gives you redundant slows you don’t need, heals you won’t need, buffs you won’t need, a pet that sucks and malo (value added). Dots will not add much as with 2 ench pets nothing is alive long. Malo is good but shamans don’t have a monopoly on this line. Shaman isn’t a terrible choice, but you’re bringing along a class that can’t contribute as much as other options

-mage: strong pet for additional dps and backup tanking (value added), malo (value added), mod rods (value added), coth (value added for both mobility and aggro wipe mechanics), pet haste masks (value added as pets are literally all your dps) … and when all else is covered and nothing else needed, nifty nuke burn potential.

-necro: decent pet choices for additional dps and backup tanking (value added), twitches (value added), additional cc (value added root and screaming), backup heals (probably not needed but value added), FD (value added and opens up some content), snare (meh but value added?), backup rez (value added) … and when all else is covered they can burn extra mana nuking stuff down or just twitching.


So yeah in this theoretical best of the best it’s either
-clr/ench/ench/mage if you don’t need a FD split
-clr/ench/ench/nec if FD split would be useful or at a tougher camp that may benefit from the expanded necro tool kit (but you lose malo)

Shaman are a top notch class but compared to mage or necro … relative dead weight only contributing redundant bs you don’t really need. A competent cleric can easily manage 2 charming enchanters cross covering cc … and healing a charm pet is so laughably easy you don’t need slow … and when you do enchanters can do that too last I checked.


I fully expect a literal tidal wave of dissenting responses from DSM but I call em like I see em.

My only regret I didn’t include a 3rd enchanter as an option. My mistake but it could be considered that the addition of mage malo, pet haste masks, mod rods and CoTH might make the mage a better 4th choice in a group that already has ludicrous dps.

To which I could argue a 4th as mage is better than a 3rd ench for the aforementioned reasons. How much dps does a group need? Even then I have provided parses of my mage and pet putting out more dps than a hasted ench pet. So maybe it’s a nothingburger side argument … that still excludes a shaman who’s utility isn’t needed

[Troxx]

In B4 DSM submits single fights of him solo fighting level 40 seb frogs or partial/incomplete group parses of cherry picked fights.

Remember on my mage I can cherry pick fights north of 200dps. Give me enough fights and I can give you 20 averaged at 160dps+ but this is NOT a reflection of expectation.

At 60 with no pet focus my average is 100-120 dps in a typical group. As high as 120-140 in an ideal situation and as low as 80-100 in a bad one.

I know the limitations of my alt. I am willing to admit them up front

PS: most non raid geared melee will admit that an average dps over 80 is admirable

PPS: shamans are not a group dps class. They can put out impressive numbers for a multi class role. They are globally BETTER than most all classes. But this thread has a narrow focused question

[Troxx]

I think he is just asleep but am optimistic he is trying.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Looks like nobody has posted any new data, only new trolling posts. Thank you to the trolls for keeping yourself well known[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] This is too easy. Your post histories are now flooded with posts that show how poorly you respond to losing an argument.

For anybody who doesn't want to read the 140+ pages, you can safely discount all recent posts by Troxx, Cyxthryth, Karanis, PlsNoBan, Toxigen, and Ripqozko. They have long since lost the desire to have an actual conversation, and instead want to try and bury the conversation in troll posts so people can't see that their own data shows they are wrong.

This is the current state of the discussion, which has yet to be continued due to trolling and lack of evidence or pursuasive arugment:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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Here is Troxx's data for reference. It is using his own standards of being in a group for an extended period of time. He is doing... 79 DPS (without damage shield). It is the precise number I calculated. His DPS is 40 simply because he is nuking more per encounter, but math-wise this also means they aren't pulling mobs that fast. His previous encounter data shows an average kill speed of 36 seconds, and he has yet to provide average kill speed for this data set.

There are two ways you can interpret this data:

1. You can believe Troxx, who is claiming his DPS parser is undervaluing the data by 30%. If that is true, then honestly all of the data he has posted so far is meaningless because his parser is wrong, and he needs to get a better parser.

2. GamParse did it's job and parsed Troxx's DPS correctly. The reason why he thinks the data is undervalued by 30% is because his similarly equipped Monk can do 70 DPS when he isn't pulling. That is where he is getting the 30% number, 70 x 0.7 = 49. The flaw in Troxx's logic is the Monk is only losing 30% DPS because he is pulling, NOT because the parser is wrong. Troxx isn't pulling, he is just sitting in camp DPSing and parsing. He is not losing any DPS, so there is no 30% loss for him. He is basically falsely assuming that if the Monk loses 30% DPS, everybody else is losing 30% DPS too. The parser is correct, and Troxx is wrong.

Either way, he basically has nothing to back up his silly points. The burden of proof now lies on him to either provide better data, or prove his parser is undervaluing all DPS by 30%, and not just the Monk who is pulling lol.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638 - Here is real objective data for DPS comparisons between a Mage and a Shaman, using a level 49 Sebilis Mob. A Shaman can do 55.2 DPS, a Mage can do 82.7 with damage shield. The difference is only 27.5 DPS. This is a level 60 Mage vs. a level 60 Shaman, no clickies or mana buffs, and assuming the group is killing a mob every 36 seconds.

[Troxx]

Congrats on misinterpreting data?