Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Vexenu]

Clearly, neither of you understand math.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If the shaman's supposed to be on offense and he switches to rooting/slowing/healing it means something went wrong or the cleric's AFK. Put the mage in that environment and people are dying while he stands there looking pretty because he can't do jack to help. I don't think him bragging about his superior DPS while his groupmates are trying to arrange a rez is going to endear him to them! Much better for the magician to compare him and a shaman in a happy perfect fun time when nothing's wrong and nobody's in danger, stick to the thing the magician does best.

The velketor boots suffer badly in fast kills due to the slow cast speed--only get to use it once per on those 30 second kills. Burnt staff is probably better in that environment and the shaman bracer will out perform either probably. Fast pulls benefit the magician because fast kills make the pets' contribution proportionally greater and the magician has an inarguably superior pet. The shaman'll like slower pulls or longer kills where his damage over time spells and incredible mana recovery rate get the most mileage while the magician's sustainable damage doesn't actually increase and his burst leaves him out of commision a lot longer than the shaman's recovery takes.

Danth

Well said.

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Clearly, neither of you understand math.

As I said before, it is you who's math skills are lacking. My "napkin math" is matching the real in-game data:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638

I just don't understand why people think it is difficult to math out this sort of thing. In video games the math and rules are fixed and cannot change unless you cheat, or the developers change something.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Clearly, neither of you understand math.

Don't look at me, I've been trying to avoid the napkin math this whole time. Got an exception to something I said lemme know and I'm glad to explain why I feel the way I do. I'll even get off here before 2 AM.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's some data:

Turgur's Insects - 3 sec cast, 250 mana
Malo - 5 sec cast, 350 mana
Paralyzing Earth - 2.5 sec cast, 100 mana
Chloroblast - 3 sec cast, 175 mana
Pox of Bertoxx - 5 sec cast, 430 mana
Ice Strike - 7 sec cast, 250 mana
Epic click - 9 sec cast, 0 mana
JBB - 8 sec cast, 0 mana

Why are none of these spells/items included in your astounding little math formula, since you claim at various points in the thread to be casting them regularly for the benefit of the group? Every time you stop to cast one of these spells and deviate from your Bane/E-bolt/canni/Torpor dance the Mage continues to chainsaw DPS mana-free. To even remain in the same ballpark with him you can literally only cast those four spells, and you require they always tick for full duration. You simply have an autistic obsession with the Shaman class and cannot admit that their excellent solo, duo and small group performance does not translate to them being a group DPS class or being especially useful in the specific context of joining a group with an existing Enc/Enc/Clr lineup.

You're obviously correct. There's just no reasoning with this idiot so.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're obviously correct. There's just no reasoning with this idiot so.

Incorrect.

The data is here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638 . It's in game videos with full logs. It matches up with my "napkin math". You can parse the data yourself, and even double check that the data is correct by comparing the logs to the videos.

Please provide counter-data or admit you are wrong. You are the one being stubborn here[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, the redundancy you keep complaining about means a Shaman wouldn't need to cast those spells. In the Mage/Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric scenario, heals/slows/roots are already covered by the Enchanters and Cleric, and you won't be maloing a mob that dies in 36 seconds. It's just a waste of mana and generally mobs that die this fast don't have high resists. You can see I don't get a resist in my video. Maloing the charmed pets will be infrequent. Malosini lasts about 20 minutes hehe. And if you DO need to Malo mobs, well that would effect the Mana and DPS of the Mage too, since they would be doing that lol.

If the group needs the Shaman to just sit there and DPS, the mana formulas for the Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric do not change by even 1 mana.

[Troxx]

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Has DSM posted actual logs and parse yet or are we still watching videos of him solo and equate that to dps effectiveness in a fast killing group?

Working on dinner for the kids and will check in later but my guess is no.

DSM what you need to deliver:
-actual parses from an actual group
-high dps group
-you’re playing nadda but dps
-be as good or at least close to as a good as a mage (you and pet vs mage and pet)

Sadly I know this won’t be possible for you but I hope the exercise in trying and failing will help a concrete thinking fella like you see the light.

No posting solo fights.

That’s the challenge.

Will check in later.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just want to point how how you continue to move the goalposts.

Oh I can pretty much promise you we’ll see more of that.

I have a 60 shaman. I can make and buff my pet to max too. I have a full spell kit. And I can promise you he will fail miserably trying … or he just won’t and will submit “alternate facts” to support his agenda.

I am clairvoyant. Watch and see.

I just want him to try. He’ll fail but knowing him he will “do math” and prove he is right.

We all know this already. Let’s help an autistic fella expand his mind though?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Has DSM posted actual logs and parse yet or are we still watching videos of him solo and equate that to dps effectiveness in a fast killing group?

Working on dinner for the kids and will check in later but my guess is no.

DSM what you need to deliver:
-actual parses from an actual group
-high dps group
-you’re playing nadda but dps
-be as good or at least close to as a good as a mage (you and pet vs mage and pet)

Sadly I know this won’t be possible for you but I hope the exercise in trying and failing will help a concrete thinking fella like you see the light.

No posting solo fights.

That’s the challenge.

Will check in later.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638

Here's the undeniable data. The ball is in your court[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your "can't be solo fights and must be in a group" requirement is nonsense, and unnecessary. It's easy to simulate, which I have done. I have provided real data using a Seb mob of equivalent level to Crypt mobs. You need to provide your own data now. If you still can't accept this, you are literally just being silly and stubborn. Remember that your own parses do not include logs, so we don't know what mobs you were fighting, how often you nuke, if your parser is accurate, etc.

I have videos and the raw logs, so you can parse the data yourself. You can download the logs via the link in the description of the videos. You can even ensure I am not cheating by comparing the logs to what's being displayed on screen.

[Troxx]

This whole thread is about a theoretical 4 man caster group. Everyone agrees this is at least a cleric and 2 enchanters charming … which is huge dps.

I challenged you to show me how a shaman can do meaningful dps vs a mage. Everyone except you knows the “utility” of the shaman is redundant.

The onus is on you to show that a shaman can add as much pew pew (or close to enough) as a mage.

You have thus far failed.

Please do a fast dps group and prove me otherwise.

Until then … well …

We all know.


I know you’ll fail. You have yet to know you’ll fail. This will be a learning point for you.

We need from you:

-parses
-objective data
-the above over a sustained period of time (1-2 hour minimum)
-be grouped with high dps characters (gotta compete man)
-evidence of shaman awesomeness we all know doesn’t exist.

This is all so stupid. We all know shamans are a stellar class. They cal solo shit nobody else can. They are perfect in duos and trios. It is such a good damn class.

Why do you have to despoil it all by being an idiot? Shamans are not a focused dps class and in a fast paced group they won’t fill a strictly dps role admirably.

We all know that. But if we are wrong … Fckin prove it.

Balls in your court

[Troxx]

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So far you’ve give nothing but you soloing a Jin shaman (literally the lowest level mob in seb) and napkin math.

Prove us all wrong. I dare and challenge you.

Sustained dps (an hour or 3) in a high level area of seb. You just focus on dps and prove what ya got sustained over time. Single or double parses need not apply … I can burn 200+ dps on cherry picked parses. Give us an hour of parses and parse the dps of the rest of your group.

I know you won’t.

#sad