Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok got two videos and logs. As usual, the math is right lol. I am not sure why people think there is some mysticism here.

This test assumes no clickies and no mana regen buffs. The Shaman and the Mage are level 60. The test mob was https://wiki.project1999.com/A_Sebilite_Golem , which matches the level of the trash mobs in Crypt.

Based on Troxx's data, the average kill speed for his group was 36 seconds. So I am using that.

Shaman DPS = 17.7 from pet + 37.5 DPS at 2 Ice Strikes per 36 seconds for a total of 55.2 DPS. Mana lost: Rougly 1724 mana. The mana loss isn't 100% accurate since I needed to face tank the mob.

Mage DPS from Troxx logs: 56 DPS from pet + 23 DPS from shock of steel once per 36 seconds + 3.7 DPS from damage shield when getting hit 26 times over the entire video (logs show hits) for a total of 82.7 DPS. Mana lost is 2260, assuming the Mage is meditating at 8 ticks per minute (needs to stand up to nuke for 1-2 ticks).

No resists occurred on my Ice Strike spell. No partial resists occurred either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-g8Ywibztg - Pet DPS video, logs are attached in description.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XwiGKTuu2E - Shaman DPS video, logs are attached in description.

Shaman DPS is 55.2

Mage DPS is 82.7.

Difference is 27.5.

You decide whether roughly 30 DPS is worth a Mage[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As my other log data showed:



A Shaman's DPS increases as well if the fight lasts longer, which means they can use their DoTs. That was 70 DPS, no clickies. So the difference could shrink to about 10 DPS.

As you can see, the numbers are the same as the math I showed earlier. It is not "napkin math" lol, it is just math[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When the top end dps is 80 a difference of 30 is fairly substantial. I'm surprised with all your math skills you don't realize that.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When the top end dps is 80 a difference of 30 is fairly substantial. I'm surprised with all your math skills you don't realize that.

So you have finally conceded the math is correct!

No, 30 DPS isn't that big of a deal when looking at all of the other things a Shaman offers.

If you are killing a mob with 8000 HP in 36 seconds, that means your DPS is 222 already. A difference of 30 would change the kill speed from 36 to 42 seconds. That is a difference of 6 seconds. Now I know people will think that's good, but you aren't considering the other things a Shaman can do to save the party time. So really it's a smaller difference, but harder to quantify.

[Vexenu]

I don't see you casting slow, Malo, Epic, JBB, Pox, root, spot heals, canni and Torpor in that log, all of which you have claimed at various times in this thread you will be regularly casting, and all of which together would substantially change your ridiculous little math calculation and reveal it to be the work of an utter imbecile.

Or are you now claiming you will just stand there spamming Bane and E-bolt for hours on end in a sad (and still futile!) attempt to out-DPS a Mage?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see you casting slow, Malo, Epic, JBB, Pox, root, spot heals, canni and Torpor in that log, all of which you have claimed at various times in this thread you will be regularly casting, and all of which together would substantially change your ridiculous little math calculation and reveal it to be the work of an utter imbecile.

Or are you now claiming you will just stand there spamming Bane and E-bolt for hours on end in a sad (and still futile!) attempt to out-DPS a Mage?

It's your turn to show some data. I have literally done all the work for you. Stop being silly and concede or provide evidence.

[Ripqozko]

Join VQ and play with DSM

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Join VQ and play with DSM

Yup. I am helping other players understand the game better. Most of the other posters are trolling, including yourself. I think people would rather avoid the trolls who refuse to admit they are wrong.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you even math ? Clearly you don’t understand math . It’s all written out if you look at the math.

It's that blasted New Math again, isn't it?

------------------------------

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When the top end dps is 80 a difference of 30 is fairly substantial. I'm surprised with all your math skills you don't realize that.

A 30 DPS difference is large comparing them individually but not especially sigificant as part of the larger hypothetical group. We already have a couple of hasted/buffed/etc charm pets shredding stuff in our group. A 6-man won't want the shaman as a damage-dealer, but a 6-man pickup group breaks and forms on-site and is ever-changing so they're covering their utility on an as-needed, custom basis. This thread intended to discuss a single, set group intended to do all content throughout the entire game. Frankly I don't care if I can mow something down in 33 seconds with a magician or 30 seconds with a shaman then wait 4 min instead of 5 at the end of the round while stuff respawns. I care what the raw capability of the group is, so I care more about camps where one character is *strongly* preferred over the other. Math won't get us there.

We all liked the magician over the shaman for Juggernauts, even Shamwowi. Probably all of us (I assume?) would like the shaman over the magician for West Wastes dragons. Who wins at more individual locations? I'll be frank here, I'm not experienced enough with magicians--I only occasionally group with them--to know ALL the areas that they're really good for. Chime in, please.

Danth

[Vexenu]

Here's some data:

Turgur's Insects - 3 sec cast, 250 mana
Malo - 5 sec cast, 350 mana
Paralyzing Earth - 2.5 sec cast, 100 mana
Chloroblast - 3 sec cast, 175 mana
Pox of Bertoxx - 5 sec cast, 430 mana
Ice Strike - 7 sec cast, 250 mana
Epic click - 9 sec cast, 0 mana
JBB - 8 sec cast, 0 mana

Why are none of these spells/items included in your astounding little math formula, since you claim at various points in the thread to be casting them regularly for the benefit of the group? Every time you stop to cast one of these spells and deviate from your Bane/E-bolt/canni/Torpor dance the Mage continues to chainsaw DPS mana-free. To even remain in the same ballpark with him you can literally only cast those four spells, and you require they always tick for full duration. You simply have an autistic obsession with the Shaman class and cannot admit that their excellent solo, duo and small group performance does not translate to them being a group DPS class or being especially useful in the specific context of joining a group with an existing Enc/Enc/Clr lineup.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's some data:

Turgur's Insects - 3 sec cast, 250 mana
Malo - 5 sec cast, 350 mana
Paralyzing Earth - 2.5 sec cast, 100 mana
Chloroblast - 3 sec cast, 175 mana
Pox of Bertoxx - 5 sec cast, 430 mana
Ice Strike - 7 sec cast, 250 mana
Epic click - 9 sec cast, 0 mana
JBB - 8 sec cast, 0 mana

Why are none of these spells/items included in your astounding little math formula, since you claim at various points in the thread to be casting them regularly for the benefit of the group? Every time you stop to cast one of these spells and deviate from your Bane/E-bolt/canni/Torpor dance the Mage continues to chainsaw DPS mana-free. To even remain in the same ballpark with him you can literally only cast those four spells, and you require they always tick for full duration. You simply have an autistic obsession with the Shaman class and cannot admit that their excellent solo, duo and small group performance does not translate to them being a group DPS class or being especially useful in the specific context of joining a group with an existing Enc/Enc/Clr lineup.

I have already provided the actual data:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638

Please concede or show additional evidence.

You don't seem to realize that a group killing stuff every 36 seconds isn't going to be casting Malo, Slow, Root, etc. most of the time. And remember, people keep complaining about redundancy. In the Mage/Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric group, the Enchanters would be handling the root/slow anyway, so it's already covered! The Cleric is healing, so it's covered! The Shaman can just DPS away if the group needs them to[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] But the Shaman can also do other things if the situation changes, which is why they are better. 27 DPS isn't going to make a group with 2x Enchanters much better. They are already shredding lol.

[Danth]

If the shaman's supposed to be on offense and he switches to rooting/slowing/healing it means something went wrong or the cleric's AFK. Put the mage in that environment and people are dying while he stands there looking pretty because he can't do jack to help. I don't think him bragging about his superior DPS while his groupmates are trying to arrange a rez is going to endear him to them! Much better for the magician to compare him and a shaman in a happy perfect fun time when nothing's wrong and nobody's in danger, stick to the thing the magician does best.

The velketor boots suffer badly in fast kills due to the slow cast speed--only get to use it once per on those 30 second kills. Burnt staff is probably better in that environment and the shaman bracer will out perform either probably. Fast pulls benefit the magician because fast kills make the pets' contribution proportionally greater and the magician has an inarguably superior pet. The shaman'll like slower pulls or longer kills where his damage over time spells and incredible mana recovery rate get the most mileage while the magician's sustainable damage doesn't actually increase and his burst leaves him out of commision a lot longer than the shaman's recovery takes.

Danth