Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, you're not arguing math with me exactly because you're not showing me anything I don't already know. Rather I'm arguing would vs. could. I don't know any three-enchanter groups but the two-enchanter groups I know don't operate that way, not even when they add a DOT-based character. They could, but they don't. Since this entire discussion amounts to theory-craft it's probably the wrong tack to try to limit myself to real-game situations. Really I ought to stand aside and let the dreamers dream.

Danth

Just because you prefer to play one way, doesn't mean that is the best way[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] And for people who are clamoring that "DPS is better than everything", I am showing them that they can get the same DPS just fine. Don't blame me for simply looking at the facts lol. I know how Seb mobs work, you could do what I suggested just fine and get the Same DPS. It's really not theory craft. Preference is irrelevant. Remember that 2 Charmed pets can only attack up to 2 mobs at a time. So you can have 4-6 mobs in camp and DoT up the mobs that aren't being killed.

DPS is the key argument for bringing a Mage, and they can't even hit higher numbers than a Shaman. Their lack of utility means they are just sub-par compared to a Shaman in Seb. That isn't to say you can't play with a Mage. If you want to that's great! Most people aren't Min/Maxing their groups to begin with, regardless of what other people try to claim hehe. Remember this is level 60 we are talking about.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's really not theory craft..

Something remains theory right up until people actually start doing it on a regular basis.
Today, they don't. Sometimes good ideas and new strategies originate from such theorizing. Gameplay and popular tactics do change over time.

I'm with you on the damage isn't everything argument which is why at the very least I'd rather have three enchanters and a cleric (or necro, someone with a rez) over four enchanters. The damage > all crowd tend to ignore deaths and other setbacks as "doesn't count" and write it off. I do not think all that highly of magicians, but they will do higher average damage than a shaman in this type of group the way such groups actually operate, today. I don't think the extra damage amounts to a hill of beans though, not when multiple charm pets are already ripping through everything, but me caring about what matters seems to be the outlier in this rather fanciful discussion.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Something remains theory right up until people actually start doing it on a regular basis.
Today, they don't. Sometimes good ideas and new strategies originate from such theorizing. Gameplay and popular tactics do change over time.

I'm with you on the damage isn't everything argument which is why at the very least I'd rather have three enchanters and a cleric (or necro, someone with a rez) over four enchanters. The damage > all crowd tend to ignore deaths and other setbacks as "doesn't count" and write it off. I do not think all that highly of magicians, but they will do higher average damage than a shaman in this type of group the way such groups actually operate, today. I don't think the extra damage amounts to a hill of beans though, not when multiple charm pets are already ripping through everything, but me caring about what matters seems to be the outlier in this rather fanciful discussion.

I agree with most of this. I am simply saying just because "groups operate in x manner" doesn't mean it is the only optimal way to play. The argument isn't "Mage is better because of preference", people are arguing "Mages objectively do a ton of damage, therefore bring them instead of another class."

But at least for the Seb example, the numbers aren't adding up to make Mages special at all. At best they can DPS at the same level as a Shaman, but I am willing to bet the 157 DPS Troxx was talking about involved nuking, which isn't sustainable. The med times are going to hurt your overall DPS/kills per hour. But we will need to see the actual logs to confirm this. Having Torpor/Epic means a Shaman can sustain the DPS longer, without needing a break.