New Green

[SenoraRaton]

Originally Posted by ezigrelnos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i never said anything about random so i don't know why this counters my entire argument, the point still stands that /list is broken in its current form and is NOT fair, which is the only thing you care about so I'm not sure why you are defending it and insulting anyone who brings up valid issues with it?

are you ignorant, do you not care, i dont understand? list is factually broken, and arguably makes loot EASIER TO OBTAIN for anyone who is willing to BREAK TERMS OF SERVICE of the server they play on (with little to no risk mind you)

and its not a choice of whether i want to damage my health, i just physically cannot stay awake for 40+ hours in a row so i guess I don't get loot/play the game? this is fair?

you want an actual fix to /list? make the hours earned roll over and base the prioritization of your list position on total hours logged at camp

spend 30 hours over 5 days? come back day 6 and you're ahead everyone under you. Are they mad they spent 20 hours and lost their spot? sure, but they can do the same thing and they don't lose their spot. eventually, given enough time spent, you will earn the right to loot (maybe 100 hours? who knows but at least this is FAIR and OBTAINABLE [read:not easy/free])



"think of the casuals." i dont want everyone and their grandma to be handed a mana stone on login but if you think you're a tuff guy on a PVE server because your guild rotates out AFK duty on limited items you're beyond help

This is the answer. Just award points to PH kills, and whoever has the most points, gets the item. That is how we handle raid DKP, why can't it just be that simple. Then you can log on whenever you can, and you will KNOW where your at in the grand scheme of things, and everyone will constantly be making progress, instead of being forced to be physically present at the camp for unhealthy amounts of time.

[ezigrelnos]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We're just making up our own game at that point ... but the point of this place isn't to do that, it's to recreate EverQuest from 1999-2001.

Look, /list 1.0 started out with the best intentions of doing that. We know exactly what happened in classic when 2+ people wanted a camp, because we have the GM guidelines from back then:



But, we don't have paid GMs with time to do all of the classic stuff described above ... so the devs made /list 1.0 as a way to resolve things automatically without human GMs.

The problem is, back in classic no one stayed at a camp for even 24 hours. Most players' internet connections wouldn't even stay stable for more than a few hours back then!

If we want to do the most classic thing (which, again, is the whole point of this place ... just look at the upper-left corner of your screen) it should be as close to what happened on live as possible. A random roll was used on live, and it came with an implicit time limit (the camp was assumed to free up within a few hours). If new people contested the same mob after that time, it would result in ... another random roll.

A random /list 2.0 solves all of the (unclassic) problems with people sitting for 24+ hours, trading accounts with each other, etc ... and it brings us as close as we can get (without paid GMs) to classic.

this is a good point to make that the spirit of list should be as classic as possible, where as my solution is very specifically a modern take on the solution (which was a modern solution initially that has modern flaws like virtual machines/ocr) but really I just wanted to let castle2.0 know that the current list is not fair and makes loot easier to obtain which goes against the two talking points he stands for

Random may not be the most "fair" but is is quite accommodating while still being the most "classic" take on /list

[ezigrelnos]

oh did i win against all the forumquesters?

i dont usually post so jw how powerleveled i just got...

[Castle2.0]

Originally Posted by ezigrelnos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i never said anything about random so i don't know why this counters my entire argument, the point still stands that /list is broken in its current form and is NOT fair, which is the only thing you care about so I'm not sure why you are defending it and insulting anyone who brings up valid issues with it?

are you ignorant, do you not care, i dont understand? list is factually broken, and arguably makes loot EASIER TO OBTAIN for anyone who is willing to BREAK TERMS OF SERVICE of the server they play on (with little to no risk mind you)

and its not a choice of whether i want to damage my health, i just physically cannot stay awake for 40+ hours in a row so i guess I don't get loot/play the game? this is fair?

you want an actual fix to /list? make the hours earned roll over and base the prioritization of your list position on total hours logged at camp

spend 30 hours over 5 days? come back day 6 and you're ahead everyone under you. Are they mad they spent 20 hours and lost their spot? sure, but they can do the same thing and they don't lose their spot. eventually, given enough time spent, you will earn the right to loot (maybe 100 hours? who knows but at least this is FAIR and OBTAINABLE [read:not easy/free])



"think of the casuals." i dont want everyone and their grandma to be handed a mana stone on login but if you think you're a tuff guy on a PVE server because your guild rotates out AFK duty on limited items you're beyond help

Not grandmas, just the exact level of commitment you personally want to put in. Noted. Loramin is the one pushing the "random" idea. Has no legs, will never make it in. But when I see a bad idea I have to shoot it down.

Just a public service announcement:

EVERY TERRIBLE LIST REPLACEMENT IDEA HAS BEEN REFUTED IN PREVIOUS THREADS. GO READ

I'll entertain a few though for people who can't use the search function:

This is the answer. Just award points to PH kills, and whoever has the most points, gets the item. That is how we handle raid DKP, why can't it just be that simple. Then you can log on whenever you can, and you will KNOW where your at in the grand scheme of things, and everyone will constantly be making progress, instead of being forced to be physically present at the camp for unhealthy amounts of time.

Bad.

You have 100 kills, I have 101. You have been camping for 10 hours. I show up. You have no incentive to stay except to stack some more kills. You won't be getting the next item. You leave. You effectively lost your camp.

If we want to do the most classic thing (which, again, is the whole point of this place ... just look at the upper-left corner of your screen) it should be as close to what happened on live as possible. A random roll was used on live, and it came with an implicit time limit (the camp was assumed to free up within a few hours). If new people contested the same mob after that time, it would result in ... another random roll.

A random /list 2.0 solves all of the (unclassic) problems with people sitting for 24+ hours, trading accounts with each other, etc ... and it brings us as close as we can get (without paid GMs) to classic.

Baggy jeans were also fashionable amongst youth in the early 2000s. Anything else irrelevant that happened around the same time? Oh there was a BOTB and /duels. People should /duel for camps.

/random is to decide "tie-breakers." Someone at a camp before someone else should never be forced or /random the camp because someone new comes along. It's as simple as that. Sorry, you are too braindead to understand.

The pixel greed and projection is hilarious.

[SenoraRaton]

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have 100 kills, I have 101. You have been camping for 10 hours. I show up. You have no incentive to stay except to stack some more kills. You won't be getting the next item. You leave. You effectively lost your camp.

False, I sit at the camp, and collect points until I'm first on the list. It works just like /list does. You know your current position in camp, in this scenario it can change, and you can go backwards, but you can never loss progress. Isn't the entire way to get drops to kill the mob more, until it drops the item?

[Castle2.0]

Similar to list, but worse.

Now you get no-lifers on alt accounts stacking kills in-between raids, that weren't able to camp the item AND go on raids before.

[ezigrelnos]

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Similar to list, but worse.

Now you get no-lifers on alt accounts stacking kills in-between raids, that weren't able to camp the item AND go on raids before.

can we just agree that the current /list is not fair and makes gear easier to obtain with the VM/OCR issues?

shutdown and shit on all the other examples all you want but it doesn't make the truth any harder to swallow

[Castle2.0]

Originally Posted by ezigrelnos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

can we just agree that the current /list is not fair and makes gear easier to obtain with the VM/OCR issues?

shutdown and shit on all the other examples all you want but it doesn't make the truth any harder to swallow

No, we can't agree, because you are dumb/selfish and the list is the best we have.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by ezigrelnos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so I'm not sure why you are defending it and insulting anyone who brings up valid issues with it?

I’m surprised that you’ve had an account since 2014 and haven’t realized that that’s who castle is. He’s just a rude individual who is way too immersed in P99

[Castle2.0]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m surprised that you’ve had an account since 2014 and haven’t realized that that’s who castle is. He’s just a rude individual who is way too immersed in P99

Haven't played in months. I just don't let bad ideas get passed off as good ones. Such is the life of a good guy.