Solo Barbarian Shaman Stat Allocation

[ArbiterBlixen]

Whoops, i forgot othmir prexus totem, i was originally building it with some of loramin’s items in mind as well. But sounds like that’s in your price range anyway.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]anthswife

Here’s a magelo I set up to see what a wis build would look like. I swapped the ears out for the chardok ears cause i was well over wis cap. Hit 196 stamina with only two dedicated stamina items (ears). She’s rocking a vindi bp too, and although that may not be something you have access to, it more common than not on a shammy main. But the point is, if stamina cap is your goal you can hit it easily. So if you’re really wondering when she’ll hit cap, It will happen when she devotes any minor effort towards doing so. Oh also this is a barbarian. Trolls and ogres would be over sta cap with this setup.

Thanks for doing the magelo, was going to do one hehe. Yeah it's not hard to get 200STA with "casual" gear, even as a Barb.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]anthswife

Here’s a magelo I set up to see what a wis build would look like.

Neat experiment. Compared to the wife's character I think it has about the same mana and slightly less health but probably a little higher armor rating. That it has perhaps a little less health but higher stamina serves as a reminder that HP are HP regardless of the source they come from--raw HP items (like the real character's matchless mantle) are just as nice even without the raw stat boost.

(Edit) could you change the profile name? Wouldn't want people assuming I made it.

Danth

[ArbiterBlixen]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Neat experiment. Compared to the wife's character I think it has about the same mana and slightly less health but probably a little higher armor rating. That it has perhaps a little less health but higher stamina serves as a reminder that HP are HP regardless of the source they come from--raw HP items (like the real character's matchless mantle) are just as nice even without the raw stat boost.

(Edit) could you change the profile name? Wouldn't want people assuming I made it.

Danth

Sorry, do you know how to do that?

Edit, now loramin’s expertise is needed

[Siberious]

Another Magelo for reference. This is all EC buyable gear at 20k or less per slot (most of it is far less than that, just noting since a few items can get that high). There are plenty of quest items a non-raid shaman could do to really fill it out and have a solid set of gear. This is with 105 sta 105 wisdom at char creation. I was able to get to 206 stamina and my wisdom still falls plenty short of 200 (using 200 as reference since the amount of mana per wisdom drops at 200).

As illustrated a non-raid geared shaman can easily cap stamina with buyable EC gear. With questing more items over time (Scout for Talisman of Benvolence, Circlet of the Falinkan, etc) you could get better raw hp/mana items and increase your wisdom a fair bit. It also doesn't account for more expensive MQs like SS BP/Legs, which a solo/small group non-raid shaman could farm plat for and buy eventually, which really would give the build a boost. I also left JBB in since it's probably the best bang for your buck DPS option on a non-raid shaman, since your gear options might not always allow for sustaining mana for your expensive dots while reslowing/torping/canni dance, etc.


https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:BarbShaman

[JDAm0nk]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you even read the conversation before participating? This is a discussion of non-high-end raiding Shaman ... and you use an item from VP?

Everyone wants to argue with me, but no one wants to talk about what a non-guild (or at least non-top-end-guild) Shaman actually does with their time, and why more HP or more Mana would help them do it better.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Before 60 no one is maxing any stats, so I'be been assuming the conversation starts at 60: personally I'm not even trying to discuss <60 here.

Jesus wept...

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, if you want to talk about absolutes, it's nothing in either case because, as I know you agree, ultimately 20 points of a starting stat aren't going to break a character.

I'm not "talking absolutes", and I fully agree you could put all points in Charisma and still be perfectly happy playing that Shaman for a decade ... but we are theorycrafting on what's best for a non-high-end raid shaman here.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I tend to think the solo shaman might be advised to focus on AC even above raw hit points, and at the very least definitely not ignore it.

I won't disagree ... but you don't have a choice of raw hit points or stamina with your starting points, only Wisdom or Stamina.

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't imagine them soloing Sebilite Protectors. Again that was brought up in response to a question of yours and I noted that it wasn't relevant.

...

The reason i call this a straw man is because you were arguing that the rest of us weren't evaluating the situation appropriately as it pertains to OP.

To be a straw man, it has to (falsely) support y argument. Saying "maybe not all Shaman do the camps I listed, because someone mentioned another camp" was in no way a part of my argument ... it was weakening my argument.

If all Shaman just did the camps I described, my argument would be stronger, so saying "there might be other places where my argument doesn't apply" is not a straw man strengthening my argument!

Try to actually understand what a logical fallacy is before you accuse people of using one next time.

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry, do you know how to do that?

Edit, now loramin’s expertise is needed

The Magelos are special, so I don't think they can be renamed, only deleted and remade. I deleted Danth's Wife for you ;-)

Originally Posted by Siberious [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Another Magelo for reference ...
https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:BarbShaman

FINALLY! This has been what I've been trying to show here!

That shaman has 69 less AC than Loramin (Danth was just talking about the importance of AC to a Shaman). They have more than 200 mana less than Loramin (throughout this thread everyone keeps insisting max mana matters). They have 27 less MR and significantly less other resists, no regen, no FT ...

... and they're "done". This Shaman has played for years to get all that gear, and now at the end they have nowhere to go (without losting stamina).

So yes, if you abandon everything else and just focus on Stamina, and devote your entire Shaman career to getting Stamina gear, at the very end you might, maybe max out your Stamina.

But for the entire time you spent leveling up, and the entire time you spent at 60 farming plat for Torpor, and then the entire time you spent acquiring gear with Torpor ... more HP would have been more helpful than mana, for reasons I've repeatedly endlessly, and no one has in any way confronted.

[ArbiterBlixen]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To be a straw man, it has to (falsely) support y argument. Saying "maybe not all Shaman do the camps I listed, because someone mentioned another camp" was in no way a part of my argument ... it was weakening my argument.

If all Shaman just did the camps I described, my argument would be stronger, so saying "there might be other places where my argument doesn't apply" is not a straw man strengthening my argument!

Try to actually understand what a logical fallacy is before you accuse people of using one next time.

That's not the argument you were trying to strengthen or weaken at the time. That line was included specifically to paint us as having an inappropriate scope in regards to OP's needs. Anyway, let's stop talking about this.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Magelos are special, so I don't think they can be renamed, only deleted and remade. I deleted Danth's Wife for you ;-)

Thank you, appreciate it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So yes, if you abandon everything else and just focus on Stamina, and devote your entire Shaman career to getting Stamina gear, at the very end you might, maybe max out your Stamina.

But for the entire time you spent leveling up, and the entire time you spent at 60 farming plat for Torpor, and then the entire time you spent acquiring gear with Torpor ... more HP would have been more helpful than mana, for reasons I've repeatedly endlessly, and no one has in any way confronted.

Neither of those Magelos are very hard to get, especially if you are dedicated enough to reach 60.

No, the HP wouldn't have helped your journey. 75HP won't save you from anything. Neither will the mana. WIS is harder to cap, so it is the better stat.

You have been confronted and proven wrong, you just can't admit it.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have been confronted and proven wrong, you just can't admit it.

So, I keep making the same points, and you keep ignoring them and not offering any evidence to the contrary ... but you've won the discussion because you declare it so. I bow down to your superior EQ knowledge. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You still haven't shown evidence that mana is more valuable than HP, either before 60 or at 60, and you still haven't shown evidence that a real non-raid Shaman (who cares about more than just maxxing Stamina) would ever hit the cap before they've run out of reasons to play the character,

You someone else made a Magelo of a contrived Stamina-only Shaman (who had to have a complete set of non-raiding gear in order to hit the cap) and declared yourself the victor. Great, you "won" ... what?

I'm a human trying to have a conversation to answer the OP's question: converse with me, talk about what I'm talking about ... don't chime in with these two sentence sound bites that ignore the points I've made (your VP hammer one ... in a thread about non-raid shaman ... was the most embarrassing) and declare you've won the imaginary battle in your head.