Solo Barbarian Shaman Stat Allocation

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Before 60 no one is maxing any stats, so I'be been assuming the conversation starts at 60: personally I'm not even trying to discuss <60 here. And when it comes to 60 (as I keep repeating), in all the fights I've listed what's hard isn't running out of mana ... it's running out of life before slow lands.

So are you thinking of different fights, or are you disagreeing and arguing that in A4/Crypt/WW Dragons/etc. the hard part is running out of mana?

Ok, so if we start at 60 then my points you were complaining about stand lol. Being level 60 is endgame, and people do decide to raid even though they say they won't. I am not sure why you are straddling this really thin line to try and be right.

WIS basically no matter what. Pre 60 it doesn't matter, and at 60 you will probably be at STA cap or close to it. If 75HP is the difference between life and death, the problem wasn't your starting stats at level 60. 75HP is half of one melee attack.

[ArbiterBlixen]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what's "endgame" for a non-raid Shaman? Again, what are you thinking when you imagine "a non-raid Shaman" playing EQ?

I'm imagining that Shaman farming plat for upgrades, because that's the only way to get upgrades without raiding. I imagine them farming the places I keep repeating because they are uniquely good for Shaman and not for other classes (Crypt, WW Dragons, PoM A4, etc.). One other person in the thread imagines them soloing Sebilitie Protectors.

We have to be on the same page with what we're talking about or we're just talking past each other.

I don't imagine them soloing Sebilite Protectors. Again that was brought up in response to a question of yours and I noted that it wasn't relevant.

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So a fight against Sebilite Protector for example. You are going to want that mana. He has really high MR so root doesn't last more than a few seconds, and he could take 4-7 slow attempts on average. You won't be able to torpor and you really can't stand and take hits.

Anyway this is mostly irrelevant.

The reason i call this a straw man is because you were arguing that the rest of us weren't evaluating the situation appropriately as it pertains to OP. And you have me set up like a straw man.

straw man
/ˌstrô ˈman/
noun

1. an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So your entire argument amounts to "pick Wisdom, it's flexible" ... and it will let you do ___________? What? What can you do with more Wisdom that you can't do with more HP?

Well, if you want to talk about absolutes, it's nothing in either case because, as I know you agree, ultimately 20 points of a starting stat aren't going to break a character. My wife's shaman comes very close to the theoretical level-60-forever non-raider.....but I didn't want to use it as an example because we mostly duo, so she's set up more for that job which makes it less applicable for a dedicated solo'er. Her character performs extremely well as a duo partner with my Shadowknight and the ~3300 mana pool is nice, but if I wanted to solo on a Shaman I would recommend a somewhat different gear setup as her health is average and her armor rating probably a little below average. You could trade 500-odd mana down and still have plenty for normal non-trophy-kill shaman type stuff and have a useful improvement to health and especially armor rating. Since Torpor heals a fixed value I tend to think the solo shaman might be advised to focus on AC even above raw hit points, and at the very least definitely not ignore it.

In general the 25 wis / 5 stamina allocation is pretty safe for just about anyone so I'd recommend it unless someone has a very specific reason to do otherwise. I can see some specific individuals doing fine with a more stamina-focused setup.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The problem is 75HP just isn't much life when dealing with an unslowed mob. At level 60 that is half of one attack or less. You are maybe gaining 1 extra second of being alive if you were lucky enough for your AC to reduce the damage by half. Getting down to 75 HP should be the rare exception, for when you get really unlucky resists. If you are consistently getting down to 100ish HP in a fight, the fight is just too hard for you. A bit more HP won't solve the issue because an unlucky double attack will still kill you.

And again, you WILL be STA capped at some point when you are 60, so you lose all the benefits anyway. WIS is still useful, because Shaman spells are expensive and an unlucky string of resists will also kill you. Getting 150-250 extra mana from the 25 WIS (which you are less likely to be capped on) means you have enough mana for a gate/root when things don't go your way, which will save you more than 75HP. And again, you can use that extra mana to potentially cannibalize a bit less when at low HP.

Either way it's not going to make much of a difference at level 60. The reason why WIS is superior is simply due to how stats line up with gear/buffs in this era. It's just easier to cap STA on a Shaman.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And again, you WILL be STA capped at some point when you are 60

My wife's had a level 60 Shaman for a decade or so. She is not nor ever has fully capped stamina. When does this automatic stat-capping come into play?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My wife's had a level 60 Shaman for a decade or so. She is not nor ever has fully capped stamina. When does this automatic stat-capping come into play?

It's generally easier to cap STA than WIS. From your description it sounds like you and your wife aren't going super hard on acquiring gear, so I wouldn't expect her stats to be capped.

The point is that you will cap it if you progress your gear.

If you aren't progressing your gear, then starting stats don't matter, because you have a comfort zone already with whatever you are doing. Obviously your wife has enough stats to do all the content that she wants to experience.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point is that you will cap it if you progress your gear.

Only if you like to hang out in temple veeshan, and not everyone cares for that. Otherwise it's by no means a given, depending on how strongly you're willing to compromise elsewhere. I do agree stamina is the easier of the two for a shaman to cap out if he wants to cap something, but a player who doesn't want to do high-end raids is more or less going to have to pick how far he cares to go with either and prioritize.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Only if you like to hang out in temple veeshan, and not everyone cares for that. Otherwise it's by no means a given, depending on how strongly you're willing to compromise elsewhere. I do agree stamina is the easier of the two for a shaman to cap out if he wants to cap something, but a player who doesn't want to do high-end raids is more or less going to have to pick how far he cares to go with either and prioritize.

Danth

You don't need to hang out in ToV to cap your STA. You can buy a Vindi BP, for example. A lot of my ToV gear doesn't even have STA, and I am capped.

[Danth]

She'd be capped if she was an ogre, or even if she had gone heavy stamina at creation; as it is she's close enough and this game is very much a case of "good enough" being actually good enough. There's only so much content to do and about none of it actually requires fully min-maxed stuff. That's more of a hobbyist pursuit, but such a point was also outside the original poster's question range. That we agree that a wis focus is generally preferable for most shaman players, although we come from opposite directions, should probably illustrate that it is indeed a pretty safe bet for most folks, even if there's different ways to do it should some individual want to do so.

When I was asking around awhile back nobody would sell a vindicator chestplate for any price. Stuff like that ebbs and flows with time.

Danth

[ArbiterBlixen]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Only if you like to hang out in temple veeshan, and not everyone cares for that. Otherwise it's by no means a given, depending on how strongly you're willing to compromise elsewhere. I do agree stamina is the easier of the two for a shaman to cap out if he wants to cap something, but a player who doesn't want to do high-end raids is more or less going to have to pick how far he cares to go with either and prioritize.

Danth

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]anthswife

Here’s a magelo I set up to see what a wis build would look like. I swapped the ears out for the chardok ears cause i was well over wis cap. Hit 196 stamina with only two dedicated stamina items (ears). She’s rocking a vindi bp too, and although that may not be something you have access to, it more common than not on a shammy main. But the point is, if stamina cap is your goal you can hit it easily. So if you’re really wondering when she’ll hit cap, It will happen when she devotes any minor effort towards doing so. Oh also this is a barbarian. Trolls and ogres would be over sta cap with this setup.