most underpowered class in game?

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A poorly geared rogue will probably do less DPS than a poorly geared Wizard

In order to get a rogue that poorly-geared on P99 you'd have to either do so on purpose or be naked on a corpse run. Wizard's unadjusted normal hourly damage output is down there around paladin-level. Nobody picks them as damage dealers unless they have no other choice and even then many groups will simply choose to remain short-handed.

In the original game wizards fared better since the culture and style of gameplay in normal grouping differed, but I assume we're talking P99's constant-activity environment here.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In order to get a rogue that poorly-geared on P99 you'd have to either do so on purpose or be naked on a corpse run. Wizard's unadjusted normal hourly damage output is down there around paladin-level. Nobody picks them as damage dealers unless they have no other choice and even then many groups will simply choose to remain short-handed.

In the original game wizards fared better since the culture and style of gameplay in normal grouping differed, but I assume we're talking P99's constant-activity environment here.

Danth

The point I was making is that nobody checks gear[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Since people don't check gear, they really don't care that much about DPS in group scenarios. This means people not inviting Wizards to a group is more of a stigma than a true mechanical concern. And while I agree that on P99 people are generally twinked, this isn't always the case. If DPS was really a big factor, people would gear screen. Two rogues could perform quite differently DPS-wise based on gear. Gear screening doesn't happen on P99 in grouping scenarios from my experience. People only class screen. Raiding excluded, obviously. Raiding does have some gear checks, but that is unrelated to grouping.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...they really don't care that much about DPS in group scenarios.

I think this plays to the druid's favor on account of the druid and wizard being closer to each other in damage dealt than either of them are to the average rogue. Nobody is going to pick them first, second, or third for damage but the druid does some other things people might pick it for. What else can I say? We play on the same server, and I see wizards and druids both being somewhat shunned in popular group areas (it's a nightmare for either of them to get a fungus king group unless they have friends in it), but wizards have the harder time of it on average.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think this plays to the druid's favor on account of the druid and wizard being closer to each other in damage dealt than either of them are to the average rogue. Nobody is going to pick them first, second, or third for damage but the druid does some other things people might pick it for. What else can I say? We play on the same server, and I see wizards and druids both being somewhat shunned in popular group areas (it's a nightmare for either of them to get a fungus king group unless they have friends in it), but wizards have the harder time of it on average.

Danth

Oh, I 100% agree Wizards are more shunned. As I have stated multiple times, on P99 Wizards are the worst grouping class due to the Stigma. I am talking about pure mechanics, if the stigma was removed.

From a pure mechanics perspective, I would say a Wizard is a better class than a Druid, simply because Wizards get to keep their full kit in all zones, where Druids lose a lot of their kit in Dungeons. These are good parts of their kit, too. It isn't like they are losing trivial spells. This means in theory a Wizard would get groups more often than Druids, because they have a wider range of zones they are useful in, and dungeons are typically more popular than outdoor zones. This is due to loot and ZEM. This assumes the server doesn't have a severe lack of healers. Druids may eek ahead of Wizards on a server where healers are in dire need.

The reason why I am talking about pure mechanics is because a stigma could be removed on P99 if players wanted to do that. No developer involvement would be needed.

As for Fungi Tunic camp specifically, most classes aren't very good for it sadly, because generally speaking Fungi Tunic camp tries to get by with the minimum number of party members, to maximize loot distribution. This means you want to bring the best classes possible to reduce how many players are needed.

[Danth]

I tend to agree with that. I'm not talking theory so much as daily reality as it presently exists on P1999, so community perception gets included in my assessment. Meaning if a person wants to make a new character on P1999 today mainly for grouping, the wizard's pretty much the worst choice he can make, even if it's not theoretically worst in all cases.

Original EQ circa 1999-2001 makes the point: There was nothing really wrong with wizards both due to different culture and different needs. The community didn't hate them. Burst mattered more in an environment where groups rarely chain-pulled and where protecting against killsteal (or doing it to others) was a real concern. It was only later on when those things began to change that they started to run into problems.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I tend to agree with that. I'm not talking theory so much as daily reality as it presently exists on P1999, so community perception gets included in my assessment. Meaning if a person wants to make a new character on P1999 today mainly for grouping, the wizard's pretty much the worst choice he can make, even if it's not theoretically worst in all cases.

Original EQ circa 1999-2001 makes the point: There was nothing really wrong with wizards both due to different culture and different needs. The community didn't hate them. Burst mattered more in an environment where groups rarely chain-pulled and where protecting against killsteal (or doing it to others) was a real concern. It was only later on when those things began to change that they started to run into problems.

Danth

I agree. If OP was specifically asking what class he should roll on P99 for grouping purposes, Wizard would be dead last on my list. But since OP's question was pretty generic, the theoretical portion of the question is open as far as I am concerned. It is a little more interesting of a conversation as well.

From a pure stigma perspective the worst classes on P99 are Ranger and Wizard, with Mage, Druid, Shadowknight, and Paladin as honorable mentions. Bard as well unless you are great at the class. If you don't want a stigma attached to your class on P99, avoid Ranger, Wizard, Mage, Druid, Shadowknight, Paladin, and Bard.

[socialist]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From a pure mechanics perspective, I would say a Wizard is a better class than a Druid, simply because Wizards get to keep their full kit in all zones, where Druids lose a lot of their kit in Dungeons.

You really overstate how much a druid loses from being indoors. It's, what, Harmony and SoW and a couple of totally inconsequential mid-level nuke spells? Harmony obviously matters, but it's hardly the primary function of the class. In groups, the fundamental purpose of the druid class is to be an okayish healer who isn't totally useless in case a better healer joins the group and removes the need for the druid's healing. That's pretty much it. They have that weird little niche carved out, the one where you can tolerate having one of them in the group even if there's also a cleric, just because druids can do some damage and be ready with emergency heals if the situation calls for it. And if you can't find a cleric, the druid's healing is good enough on its own to get some measure of grinding going, even if it leaves a lot to be desired.