most underpowered class in game?

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Too much raid emphasis. Raiding sucks here. It's 1-60 leveling/group game that matters and mages excel there.

Mage is still the worst there too.

Hope this helps.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mage is still the worst there too.

Hope this helps.

How so? In what world would you pick a wizard for your exp grp over a mage? Or a necro (assuming no good undead charms nearby)? Or hell even an non-epic rogue? Outside of mega twinked melee or charm classes mage is about the best sustained dps in a group imo

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How so? In what world would you pick a wizard for your exp grp over a mage? Or a necro (assuming no good undead charms nearby)? Or hell even an non-epic rogue? Outside of mega twinked melee or charm classes mage is about the best sustained dps in a group imo

Yes, Necro is still better than Mage in non-Undead zones due to their utility. I would take a Necro over a Mage any day in basically any scenario, unless you need COTH.

[eqravenprince]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, Necro is still better than Mage in non-Undead zones due to their utility. I would take a Necro over a Mage any day in basically any scenario, unless you need COTH.

You'd take a necro over mage cause of utility, but you've also posted you'd take a wizard over a druid. You can't have both arguments, it makes no sense.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You'd take a necro over mage cause of utility, but you've also posted you'd take a wizard over a druid. You can't have both arguments, it makes no sense.

Context matters[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] In the case of Mage vs. Necromancer, Necromancer wins every time. Utility is generally superior to DPS in group situations, and grouping patterns prove this. If DPS was the primary concern in groups, you would see a lot of gear screening. A poorly geared rogue will probably do less DPS than a poorly geared Wizard, but in most cases people would take the rogue anyway due to the Wizard stigma. So even though they picked the less optimal DPS choice, it didn't matter, because in general groups can destroy most content anyway. Having multiple players in the encounter is the biggest factor, not the DPS. But having more Utility allows multiple players to react to a bad situation and rectify it before the party wipes.

In the other thread I say Wizards are better than Druids in grouping scenarios simply because Wizards maintain their full kit both indoors and outdoors, whereas Druids lose important pieces of their kit in most dungeons. Inside a dungeon that doesn't have good animals to charm (most dungeons), a druid is basically a healer/buffer. Other classes can do that better. Wizard will do more DPS than a Druid in a dungeon, and you still get the port support. Druids are only superior in groups half the time (outdoors), and in my estimation that makes them a worse grouping class overall. If you want to be able to group in any zone, Wizard should be the superior choice.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A poorly geared rogue will probably do less DPS than a poorly geared Wizard

In order to get a rogue that poorly-geared on P99 you'd have to either do so on purpose or be naked on a corpse run. Wizard's unadjusted normal hourly damage output is down there around paladin-level. Nobody picks them as damage dealers unless they have no other choice and even then many groups will simply choose to remain short-handed.

In the original game wizards fared better since the culture and style of gameplay in normal grouping differed, but I assume we're talking P99's constant-activity environment here.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In order to get a rogue that poorly-geared on P99 you'd have to either do so on purpose or be naked on a corpse run. Wizard's unadjusted normal hourly damage output is down there around paladin-level. Nobody picks them as damage dealers unless they have no other choice and even then many groups will simply choose to remain short-handed.

In the original game wizards fared better since the culture and style of gameplay in normal grouping differed, but I assume we're talking P99's constant-activity environment here.

Danth

The point I was making is that nobody checks gear[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Since people don't check gear, they really don't care that much about DPS in group scenarios. This means people not inviting Wizards to a group is more of a stigma than a true mechanical concern. And while I agree that on P99 people are generally twinked, this isn't always the case. If DPS was really a big factor, people would gear screen. Two rogues could perform quite differently DPS-wise based on gear. Gear screening doesn't happen on P99 in grouping scenarios from my experience. People only class screen. Raiding excluded, obviously. Raiding does have some gear checks, but that is unrelated to grouping.

[NPC]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mage is still the worst there too.

Hope this helps.

The wizard is a mage, only with no pets and less utility.
My mage is more powerful than my wizard. The wizard can damage till their mana bar is empty, then at their best with regular mana regen 21, you get 210 mana per min, they can cast one DD for 730 dmg a minute. Their only purpose is DPS and they get 730 per min at 60th level after they pump maybe 8k dmg. Who is the worst? In high level groups where mobs consistently have 5k-12k hps, the wizard is the biggest drag on a group. At least Ranger, Rogue, mage, paladin can average better than 730 dmg per min, plus have other utility on top of that. And that wizard damage could be resisted making damage even worse. Druids get better mana regen with PotG so even they can average more damage, plus have all the utility of powerful buffs to add and assists significantly to infinite melee damage that is only a complete heal away.

[Castle2.0]

Originally Posted by NPC [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The wizard is a mage, only with no pets and less utility.
My mage is more powerful than my wizard. The wizard can damage till their mana bar is empty, then at their best with regular mana regen 21, you get 210 mana per min, they can cast one DD for 730 dmg a minute. Their only purpose is DPS and they get 730 per min at 60th level after they pump maybe 8k dmg. Who is the worst? In high level groups where mobs consistently have 5k-12k hps, the wizard is the biggest drag on a group. At least Ranger, Rogue, mage can average better than 730 dmg per min. And that wizard damage could be resisted on top of that. Druids get better mana regen with PotG so even they can average more damage, plus have all the utility of powerful buffs to add and assists significantly to infinite melee damage that is only a complete heal away.

My wizard gets from OOM to FM in a few minutes. For most people, it's like 15 minutes at 60 with full gear.

[sajbert]

Originally Posted by NPC [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The wizard is a mage, only with no pets and less utility.
My mage is more powerful than my wizard. The wizard can damage till their mana bar is empty, then at their best with regular mana regen 21, you get 210 mana per min, they can cast one DD for 730 dmg a minute. Their only purpose is DPS and they get 730 per min at 60th level after they pump maybe 8k dmg. Who is the worst? In high level groups where mobs consistently have 5k-12k hps, the wizard is the biggest drag on a group. At least Ranger, Rogue, mage, paladin can average better than 730 dmg per min, plus have other utility on top of that. And that wizard damage could be resisted making damage even worse. Druids get better mana regen with PotG so even they can average more damage, plus have all the utility of powerful buffs to add and assists significantly to infinite melee damage that is only a complete heal away.

Wizards aren’t great in sustained DPS groups. A Rend Robe will help with this however. Just gotta hit 60 and get VP keyed…

Wizards can regen rather fast with C2 and manna robe. Manastone is not really realistic in most group locations. But yeah your sustained DPs will still be garbage witout that Clicky Robe.

I stress that wizzies provide more than the best burst in the game and bad sustained DPS. Stuns, root, evac (planning for failure is not a bad thing in random groups).

In raids wizards like druids provide critical logistics support and you simply need them for PoH and PoS ans druids don’t get translocate. Dragonbane is also crucial for some fights. Flux staff pulls are hard to beat in some places. VP clicky staff helps with long Velious fights where wizards otherwise are purely dead weight once ports are done.

Simply put, wizards are not a great grouping class and only at late game they become passable at it. In raids they’re crucial and probably offers the best raiding QoL together with Druids. And unlike most classes, they can solo no problem all the way to 60.

I don’t recommend making a wizard because they are on the boring side but if you want afk-leveling, want to be cool and want QoL raiding… the wizard is a strong choice.