On its dying breath, <Criot> cries enough to turn blue into Dice simulator 2022

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There must be old recordings that show him practicing these runs on a private server, which could be uploaded for public viewing to substantiate these claims.



If the player was willing to cheat in order to gain an "inconsequential" advantage, it follows then that they would also be using the same or similar method throughout the race wherever possible to secure FTE, otherwise the risk wouldn't be worth the reward. If someone has already committed to breaking the rules, risking everything, they will benefit from doing so as much as possible, which seems to be the case overall with just how many FTEs were had. Who knows though? A few less FTEs here and there, and maybe nobody would have suspected anything.



More questionable now than impressive. Another video focusing on this portion of the race would have been great, but unlikely now that it isn't necessary given the change.

Also the guy who wrote that comment’s argument is essentially “yeah we cheated but it only gives us a slight advantage so people shouldn’t be upset about it”

Lol

[Reiwa]

How much time did the bad bald man gain on the other bald bad men by scripting?

[eisley]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If the player was willing to cheat in order to gain an "inconsequential" advantage, it follows then that they would also be using the same or similar method throughout the race wherever possible to secure FTE, otherwise the risk wouldn't be worth the reward. If someone has already committed to breaking the rules, risking everything, they will benefit from doing so as much as possible, which seems to be the case overall with just how many FTEs were had. Who knows though? A few less FTEs here and there, and maybe nobody would have suspected anything.

To be clear, are you suggesting he is scripting the *entire* race? On a race where you are frequently stunned, dodge roamers, and juke stutter step, and have to macro target the end to wand Statue? I don't want to put words in your mouth.

I'm sure there's videos of the practice server races. I spent a few hours racing him and others myself personally. He didn't win an overwhelming amount of times. I even won once and I hadn't played in 4 years. Not only that, but Venice ended up beating him for all-time best time (87 sec?).

If you've spent time practicing the Statue race, you know it's won or lost on the two rocks, and the turns. The faster you turn, the faster you're back to strafing. So swinging the mouse instantly into the *right position* is essential. Not only that, people who mess up the rocks, or Levitating to the ledge aren't even competitive. There's so many other things you can mess up too, like being Not An Ogre (grats on stuns), DA'ing thru Vindi then not clicking it off to Wand Statue, not running 60fps and failing to Levitate the arena ledge, not strafing properly (this is #1 reason), not macro targetting statue, or failing the door opening, and probably like 10 other things I'm forgetting.

Chooch's Youtube shows a lot of old Awakened FTE races. You'll notice that I (Chocomao) start in the lead pretty often. This is because my roommate (Yumyum) was our primary facetracker, and so I'd hear him screaming right next to me, instead of having to wait for screenshare lag or someone in voice chat. You can even see Chooch's slowing to LET me get in the lead sometimes. Despite this, I didn't get many FTE's. Being in the lead wasn't an advantage for anything other than Eashen, Ikatiar, Aary, etc. So yeah, I got a lot of those, but I only ever got one Vulak, and one or two triplets or doubles. I even ended up switching to Bard to do first group DA because I was almost guaranteed to be in the lead up until around PoM zone-in, but this allowed the rest of the group to save idols, and 2nd bard DA to hold off until my idol was about to drop, which allowed us to dominate the deep dragons. Hell, we even had Yumyum target the Vulak drake roamer on the tracker so we could spam /assist Loststalker as approaching Vulak and use Slowstone Ambers 250 range, and we nearly got 30 Vulaks in a row. It was a team effort. We practiced. We worked as a team. It paid off.

Point is, there's a lot more to FTE races than the jump off the line. It's so reductive that I'm surprised people are so up in arms over this. When examining race videos back when I was very active, we didn't even really put much thought into the jump off the line. Statue is a 90 sec race, ToV goes beyond 2 minute races. (well, used to). 100ms of a 90,000ms race. You can lose 100ms by failing to strafe for half a second.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by eisley [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Point is, there's a lot more to FTE races than the jump off the line. It's so reductive that I'm surprised people are so up in arms over this. When examining race videos back when I was very active, we didn't even really put much thought into the jump off the line. Statue is a 90 sec race, ToV goes beyond 2 minute races. (well, used to). 100ms of a 90,000ms race. You can lose 100ms by failing to strafe for half a second.

How much time do you lose when you're not first off the line and you spend the entirety of the race bumping into other racers that aren't cheating? Just ballpark is good.

[eisley]

That's kind of my point - if bumping into people is an actual problem for you, you haven't even mastered the basics of racing yet. That makes it hard to figure out why you're really losing.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by eisley [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's kind of my point - if bumping into people is an actual problem for you, you haven't even mastered the basics of racing yet. That makes it hard to figure out why you're really losing.

or we can just roll and skip all that.

[eisley]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

or we can just roll and skip all that.

I guess, if that's what the server wants.

Personally, my favorite part of this game was the competitive spirit of the FTE races (NToV especially). I never played for pixels. I quit the game #1 in DKP, I simply never spent it. What kept me interested was the intricacies and strategy and competition of racing. I'm sure others enjoyed it too.

That said, I admit I'm from a different era of player. The community has evolved, and if they prefer to /random, I can accept that. A lot of things about the raid scene have changed and it doesn't appeal so much to me anymore. I miss 4am Zlexak's with 18 people, or Statue with 20, or soloing Hate Minis, or duoing Terror. I miss NToV races. I miss the 5am all-Rogue Sneak NToV FTE races. None of this is coming back, and that's okay.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by eisley [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess, if that's what the server wants.

Personally, my favorite part of this game was the competitive spirit of the FTE races (NToV especially). I never played for pixels. I quit the game #1 in DKP, I simply never spent it. What kept me interested was the intricacies and strategy and competition of racing. I'm sure others enjoyed it too.

That said, I admit I'm from a different era of player. The community has evolved, and if they prefer to /random, I can accept that. A lot of things about the raid scene have changed and it doesn't appeal so much to me anymore. I miss 4am Zlexak's with 18 people, or Statue with 20, or soloing Hate Minis, or duoing Terror. I miss NToV races. I miss the 5am all-Rogue Sneak NToV FTE races. None of this is coming back, and that's okay.

Looks like you started raiding after sleeper woke? seems competition ended.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by eisley [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To be clear, are you suggesting he is scripting the *entire* race? On a race where you are frequently stunned, dodge roamers, and juke stutter step, and have to macro target the end to wand Statue?

If getting off the line ASAP is of no consequence whatsoever, than why would anyone use scripting unless there was more to the script than that alone? It was all but confirmed that a script was being used; removing the how-to videos only underscored what everyone took away from the mini documentary. If someone is willing to cheat for what you consider to be a negligible amount of time, what would be the purpose, considering they are as good as you claim? Also, there are other cases where human error revealed scripting on this project, with unintended and embarrassing outcomes. It's not as though these accusations came out of left field.

Originally Posted by eisley [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't want to put words in your mouth.

And my teeth appreciate that.

Originally Posted by eisley [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sure there's videos of the practice server races. I spent a few hours racing him and others myself personally. He didn't win an overwhelming amount of times. I even won once and I hadn't played in 4 years. Not only that, but Venice ended up beating him for all-time best time (87 sec?).

Players who are suspected of two-boxing are put through a series of tests on the spot. It would be interesting to see if he could demonstrate the same reaction times in different settings with different random numbers being used as the green light. If I was in Vanquish, and felt that their was nothing suspicious about those numbers, that would take priority over creating antagonistic RNF threads.

Originally Posted by eisley [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you've spent time practicing the Statue race, you know it's won or lost on the two rocks, and the turns. The faster you turn, the faster you're back to strafing. So swinging the mouse instantly into the *right position* is essential. Not only that, people who mess up the rocks, or Levitating to the ledge aren't even competitive. There's so many other things you can mess up too, like being Not An Ogre (grats on stuns), DA'ing thru Vindi then not clicking it off to Wand Statue, not running 60fps and failing to Levitate the arena ledge, not strafing properly (this is #1 reason), not macro targetting statue, or failing the door opening, and probably like 10 other things I'm forgetting.

KT instead of Statue, but yes I got the gist and realized it was pointless because my lev had less and less buoyancy for every player involved; in other words, my best times were only possible in practice. If the 30 minute documentary is ridiculous to you, which seems likely since that's how it was described, than consider how the actual races look from an outsider's perspective. And the wall staring. And the pre-parked alt armies. That someone had to compile that much evidence together rather than play the actual game, worry-free, says something about the state of the game.

[eisley]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Looks like you started raiding after sleeper woke? seems competition ended.

What? I was there for the Sleeper awakening. I was also there for the server first Nagafen, Vox, Trakanon, AoW, Tunare, and most other kills.

I remember killstealing Phara Dar from TMO solo on my rogue with an Ivandyr's Hoop and Trak Tooth. I remember blurring VP dragons at 5% to insta heal them back to 100%. I remember powerleveling in Skyfire and getting from 1-60 in a few hours. I remember when Lynuga was the most important NPC in the game.

All of that stuff felt more competitive than /randoms and 120 man zergs.