Game Mechanics: Damage disciplines not affecting non-standard attacks

[dojo420]

yay, thanks kanras.

hopefully this will be a thing of the past after the next patch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You try to backstab Trakanon, but miss!
You backstab Trakanon for 120 points of damage.
You backstab Trakanon for 120 points of damage.
You try to backstab Trakanon, but miss!
You try to backstab Trakanon, but miss!
You backstab Trakanon for 120 points of damage.
You backstab Trakanon for 120 points of damage.
You try to backstab Trakanon, but miss!
You try to backstab Trakanon, but miss!
You backstab Trakanon for 120 points of damage.

[Treats]

This was what I had posted in the Backstab thread before Aaldill said the math was wrong:

Max hit = ((Offense + Strength) /100) * (Weap Damage * 4) * (2 + (Backstab skill * .02)

Min hit = (Weap Damage * 4) * (2 + (Backstab skill * .02)

From that source with a min hit of 416 (Backstab skill at 247 with 10% mod):

Min hit = (15 * 4) * (2 + (247.5 * .02) = 416.4

Assume strength at 200:

Max hit = ((250 + 200) / 100) * (15 * 4) * (2 + (247 * .02)) = 1873.8??

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This was what I had posted in the Backstab thread before Aaldill said the math was wrong:

I said your math was wrong because min hit has NOTHING to do with weapon damage, only level. You will always backstab for 120 at level 60 even with a rusty dagger, you'll just rarely hit over that.

Apparently Duelist engages a different formula for minimum damage, though.


EDIT: Arykani said Duelist DOUBLES backstabs but QUADRUPLES regular attacks and when we looked back at the math it didn't make sense, however it totally seems that min damage goes up fourfold. If you look at the skill it says:

DUELIST (Level 59): When using this discipline, all hits landed by the rogue will be for at least four times the base weapons damage. This discipline lasts for 12 seconds, and has a base reuse time of 30 minutes. The reuse time for this discipline will decrease as the rogue gains additional levels.

So, that is correct because it reinstitutes the base damage of the weapon and multiplies it by four for the minimum damage component.

Crazy.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I said your math was wrong because min hit has NOTHING to do with weapon damage, only level. You will always backstab for 120 at level 60 even with a rusty dagger, you'll just rarely hit over that.

Apparently Duelist engages a different formula for minimum damage, though.

These formulas were ONLY factoring in when Duelist was active. I thought that was pretty clear in the other thread. That's why it is (Weapon Damage * 4) and not just (Weapon Damage) for the Max.

Using a rusty dagger the minimum hit would be 120 with and without Duelist active. (The minimum damage would come out to be 78.)

[Aadill]

I was just realizing at what point we were no longer on the same page [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also: edits to clarify.

(In short: My B)

[Treats]

All good. Here is his quote from the other thread after:

Just a word,

As a rogue with epic using duelist I NEVER did that much damage. Duelist only doubles backstab damage. It gives 4x to regular melee though. Usually duelist backstabs are in the 800-900 range with ragebringer.

This would be pretty close with the formula for magic number damage with Duelist on. The discipline only lasts 12 seconds so the chances of scoring a Max hit on a backstab would be very very low. Here is what the formula for the magic number with Ragebringer equipped and duelist active:

((Weapon Damage * 4) * 2) * (2 + (Backstab skill * .02)

((15 * 4) * 2) * (2 + (225 * .02) = 780

So with Ragebringer and Duelist active you would be hitting between 390 and 780 most of the time. A hit over 780 would be extremely rare but could very well top out at 1977 with max strength.

[Baxter]

As of the July 24th patch the backstab portion of the disc is working correctly. However the regular melee portion is only receiving 2x base weapon damage instead of the classic 4x base weapon damage.

[Wildas]

Duelist did the following,

2x to all hits and 4x min hit. If 4x min hit was > 2x a normal hit the 4x min modifier would supercede.

However, I'm pretty sure I remember 240 being min backstab with duelist. Old safehouse archive should have some screenshots.

553 was max normal BS with a 15 damage weapon, 1106 max duelist backstab.