Game Mechanics: AC/Level Mitigation & Backstabs

[dojo420]

..bind would should cap at 70% post level level 50.

This works (for me at least).

[Baxter]

This works (for me at least).

You're right. Last time I tried it wouldn't go past 50 but now it does.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aadill, thanks for that link about the gap between 59 and 60.



I thought we had established in a prior post that you shouldn't be able to min backstab with duelist on. Currently it is still possible to min backstab with duelist. I don't know if this counts as a backstab or duelist issue, but it seems like one of them.

The lucy description of duelist is:
1: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 100%
2: Increase All Skills Minimum Damage Modifier by 400%

So it should both double the max you can hit for and 4x the minimum for "all skills". Backstab is currently not being pulled in as a skill per duelist. Should it be?

Must have missed that post. I'm unsure how the calculation would work with the wording from this description of the discipline. Would really need some parses from live to see exactly how that affects the minimum hit. I don't think minimum backstab would be 480 with that active, 120 is not the base damage of the weapon.

DUELIST (Level 59): When using this discipline, all hits landed by the rogue will be for at least four times the base weapons damage. This discipline lasts for 12 seconds, and has a base reuse time of 30 minutes. The reuse time for this discipline will decrease as the rogue gains additional levels.

Best I can come up with, haven't been able to find any parses:

Max hit = ((Offense + Strength) /100) * (Weap Damage * 2) * (2 + (Backstab skill * .02)

Min hit = (Weap Damage * 2) * (2 + (Backstab skill * .02)

So, a level 60 Rogue using an SCD with Duelist on, 200 strength, and max backstab skill:

Max = 585
Min = 130 (240??)

Same Rogue with Epic (15/25):

Max = 877.5
Min = 195 (Or 240??)

[Arkyani]

Just a word,

As a rogue with epic using duelist I NEVER did that much damage. Duelist only doubles backstab damage. It gives 4x to regular melee though. Usually duelist backstabs are in the 800-900 range with ragebringer.

[Aadill]

Treats you did the math wrong. It should be 2 * max and 4 * Min

Furthermore the Min isn't based on weapon damage, so it really should only take Min * 2 which would be 240 at level 60.

*BACKSEAT MODERATOR* Also we're cluttering up a thread about AC/Level Mitigation for melee backstabs with stuff about disciplines. It's appropriate conversation but not in this thread.

[dojo420]

Rogues max at 225 backstab. Skill maxes are 252. 225 * 1.12 = 252. It means that the maximum normal backstab for Ragebringer is 533 iirc (no skill bonus, but 15 damage poker) while the MDoV's max backstab is 599 (+12% skill bonus and 15 damage poker). The max normal backstab on Bloodbath is 639 but I don't know of any 16 damage poker without a skill bonus to compare it against.

source

...and got into a debate on the max backstab was in kunark expansion with epic disc/nondisc...

The first number that comes to mind is 512, but I have no way to back that number up...

556 iirc..

553 and 1106 with duelist sounds right

source

15 Ragebringer 134/589 (134/637 Max with 12% BS mod)

Going off my old screenshots i deduced i had a 581 BS (i screenshoted a max double BS from using duelist at the time)

source (lvl 67 rogue with >225 backstab, see link)

Just some posts I found. No prove or anything.

[Shiftin]

Originally Posted by azeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is frustrating knowing, like I assume most people who played a rogue in the day know, that @ lvl 60 with 15 damage your max backstab is 556 (fact!)

im wondering if thorough investigation of the safehouse archive is in order.

[Supaskillz]

I am pretty sure your attack factors into your max backstab, ragebringer significantly increase your attack so I would not expect these numbers that you are using would be the same as using an efreeti war spear

[Treats]

Originally Posted by azeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is frustrating knowing, like I assume most people who played a rogue in the day know, that @ lvl 60 with 15 damage your max backstab is 556 (fact!)

im wondering if thorough investigation of the safehouse archive is in order.

Shadows of Luclin - Blood Bath - 16/21 - 12% Backstab mod.

(250 + 255) * 16 * 7.04 = 568

[Arkyani]

This has been broken way too long.. Im sure with this, along with FD being fubar as well for monks, that a lot of rogues and monks dont even bother logging in as much. I used to spend all day playing my rogue, now I hardly play him for an hour or two. Its just too damn depressing seeing backstabs for the same my offhand hits 60% of the time. I cant even remember the last time I had a max damage backstab. According to my parses In all them fights I never once hit 405 damage.