For a Shaman who wants to melee level, do I need to be Ogre/Troll?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by greenspectre [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what you're saying is...

Shamans can powerlevel their other toons.

Yes! But you do need to use a high level Slow, ideally https://wiki.project1999.com/Turgur%27s_Insects . This is because the lower level slows have a much shorter duration, and it takes at least 45 seconds to camp and log back in to another toon. That means most slows would already basically be worn off by the time you start fighting on your other toon. With Turgur's Insects you can basically pre-slow the mobs you want your lower level to fight, root them so they don't interrupt your camping, and then swap. Root usually wears off when a character zones/logs out, but not always. I would say it is a 50% chance as to whether or not it wears off. But the important thing is getting the slow landed. Many classes can handle breaking the camp, or potentially tanking multiple mobs slowed at 75%.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First off, let me say that I very much appreciate the raw, objective data. I'm not sure a 2 min log is a truly statistically significant dataset ... but it's way more productive than everyone (myself included) who offered only their subjective experience [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Looking at your data/calculations though, I see one key omission: we Shaman have two DoT lines, not one:

Envenomed Bolt: 30 + 27/ 6s for 42s = 219/42s = 5.2 DPS
Affliction: 30 + 6/6s for 126s = 156/126s = 1.2 DPS
Total DoT damage: 5.2 + 1.2 = 6.4 DPS

Melee: 815 damage/131s = 5.2 + 1.23 = 6.2 DPS

So unless 6.2 > 6.4 ... your data supports my point [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But look, as I keep trying to say, melee damage doesn't tell the whole story. There are three viable Shaman solo styles (modulo charm), and that the "right" one will vary. The Shaman's melee damage output does influence their strategy: a Shaman with a Granite Face Grinder and a Cloak of Flame will want to melee more than the Shaman with the rusty spear ... but in both cases that melee damage is only one part of the equation.

Hehe I try to post data when I have the time[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did disprove your point. Your claim was that melee is miniscule, such as 30% of your total damage or less. 6.2 is very close to 6.4 (over 90%), and as I said at the top, I was fighting a yellow mob. This means I will naturally miss more. If I was fighting a level 20 or 21 mob, I would probably be more around 6.5. Also remember my Cleric is a Human, so a Troll/Ogre/Barbarian with a STR buff would increase damage a bit as well. I also mention that a level 30 Shaman gets a big boost in DPS with Quickness (30% Haste) and the damage table increase. They also get a better slow, which means less damage taken while meleeing.

I did not forget about the plague line. The issue with the lower level plague spells is it just does such little damage it usually isn't worth casting. 3 Envenomed Breaths + 1 Plague is going to do 813 damage total, which wouldn't kill the mob above. You would still need to hit it once or twice with melee. And since Plague needs a full 2.1 minutes to deal it's damage, you wouldn't be saving much time. At best you would get back to the same time it would take to kill the mob with melee. A yellow mob would also have a good chance at resisting those spells, which you aren't taking into account. Melee cannot be resisted, so it is also more consistent.

3 Envenomed Breaths + 1 Plague costs you 375 mana. On my Cleric with decent twink gear, I only have something like 650 mana. That means you are spending over half your mana pool on one kill. Since Cannibalize is around half mana for HP, you would need to cannibalize at least 500 HP to mostly get your mana back from that fight. 500 HP is also over 50% of your HP pool at that level, so at the end of the day you are taking about the same damage, either from the mob or from cannibalize.

I do not have a 30ish Shaman to be able to provide raw data on average damage taken face tanking vs. cannibalizing, but I did level my Shaman from 1-60 in 2016-2017 using mostly melee until my 40s. I have very clear memory of Meleeing and slow tanking being more HP/Mana efficient than root/rotting. This is because resistances are less of a factor. Slow costs a lot less mana than the number of DoTs needed to kill the mob, so resistances aren't as big of a deal there. Heals are unresistable, so you do not need to worry about that at all. And with face tanking, you only need to root if you are trying to prevent the monster from running into other mobs, so you save mana on roots too.