Wizards! Do you regret it?

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by ryandward [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you are right, but then why are there SO many patches about damage recalculation for melee, etc?

Because as I know it, melee damage calcs aren't presented exactly the way one would think. There's a lot of subjective measures and then you have special cases for if something is higher level, weapon skill, etc etc.

The code you get to start with doing an eqemu is almost unusable for calculating anything classic or even live for that matter.

What FEELS fair and what IS classic is very different.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wizards are still highly effective at dropping that annoying healer before he can get a heal off.

How so? Their burst damage at higher levels doesn't come anywhere close to killing a MOB that is at the amount of health where it will generally begin healing. The most effective way to deal with healers is to stun them. Wizards can do that, but Enchanters do it far better because their stuns cost 1/3 the amount of mana, cast faster, and cycle faster. Clerics can stun more efficiently than Wizards as well.

If it's a target that can't be stunned, well, that's why you want 3 or 4 melee in your party. They have a chance of interrupting the cast from attacks and if the heal gets off it's not a huge deal anyway (unless it was a Cheal) because the constant damage they do is better than having a Wizard in the party. Since melee do far more DPS than a Wizard, it means targets drop quicker. The Wizard might do more damage in a short timeframe when the target is at lower health, and thus lessen the amount of heals it can get off, but having the Wizard in your party means it takes longer to get the target to the point where it will begin healing in the first place. Thus, the target isn't actually dying much quicker with the Wizard in the party, in comparison to another melee class instead, and for every 1 target that the Wizard might help drop a bit quicker, there are 2 or 3 more they won't have mana for that a melee could be doing significant damage to.

[Nirgon]

When bashes and warrior kicks run out, a wizard should have it dead by then.

[Atmas]

How much more discussion can there be about Wizards not doing well in groups pulling one at a time?

Complaining about Wizard sustained DPS is like complaining about Rogue healing ablities. The class was designed to be good at some aspects and balanced by not being good at other aspects.

I imagine that after playing some other MMOs like WoW people forget what the point of a mana bar is. EQ is designed a lot closer to the first ruleset of DnD where destructive classes like Wizards were limited in the amount of their abilities they could use in a certain time period.

I still feel that Luclin was tremendous for Wizards, AAs for reducing spell hate, decreasing cast time, decreasing spell cost, and even to a degree crits improved the ability for Wizards to do more damage, earlier, faster and longer. Up until that point all Wizards of equal levels and spells, given the same buffs, did the same DPS, the only difference was who would go OOM first. Infact until AAs with some agro issues you couldn't even go OOM on some encounters.

I'll never regret playing a wizard because:
1. I get to blow shit up
2. I can solo for xp
3. Despite my sustained DPS sucking I have saved groups on several occasions when too many mobs have come back from a pull and there is no mez.
4. I live exploring and traveling and its nice to not have to look for a port if I want to go somewhere else.

Btw Ace good to see an old TZer. I remember doing some Kedge runs with you and KoTWR. Ace is King of Kedge!

[Kope]

Originally Posted by Atmas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Btw Ace good to see an old TZer. I remember doing some Kedge runs with you and KoTWR. Ace is King of Kedge!

Ah yes, KotWR was good times. Your guild was one, if not the longest running guild on TZ, was still running in PoP if i remember correctly.

This is Walluen btw, played quite well with some of you guys after the initial burst on TZ.

[Scroll]

<--- Tilde

Ah, the bastard children of Pandemonium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Atmas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How much more discussion can there be about Wizards not doing well in groups pulling one at a time?

Complaining about Wizard sustained DPS is like complaining about Rogue healing ablities. The class was designed to be good at some aspects and balanced by not being good at other aspects.

Illegitimate comparison. Yeah, Wizards aren't supposed to be sustained DPS, but they are supposed to be burst DPS. The problem is that they can't actually kill a target quickly at the higher levels.

Your "groups who pull one at a time" statement rings pretty clueless from my vantage point. AoE groups simply are not viable for most of the higher end content. People don't just pull one at a time anyway, multiples are often pulled and the solution is to use MEZMERIZE. Even if the Wizard was better at their intended game purpose, it wouldn't change the way people do combat at the higher levels with the way EQ is currently setup. It would simply make the Wizard more competitive for the 5th and 6th slots in a group, after the necessary base of "Tank, DPS, Enchanter/Bard, (C)Healer" have been achieved.

[ryandward]

Originally Posted by Atmas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How much more discussion can there be about Wizards not doing well in groups pulling one at a time?

Complaining about Wizard sustained DPS is like complaining about Rogue healing ablities. The class was designed to be good at some aspects and balanced by not being good at other aspects.

I imagine that after playing some other MMOs like WoW people forget what the point of a mana bar is. EQ is designed a lot closer to the first ruleset of DnD where destructive classes like Wizards were limited in the amount of their abilities they could use in a certain time period.

I still feel that Luclin was tremendous for Wizards, AAs for reducing spell hate, decreasing cast time, decreasing spell cost, and even to a degree crits improved the ability for Wizards to do more damage, earlier, faster and longer. Up until that point all Wizards of equal levels and spells, given the same buffs, did the same DPS, the only difference was who would go OOM first. Infact until AAs with some agro issues you couldn't even go OOM on some encounters.

I'll never regret playing a wizard because:
1. I get to blow shit up
2. I can solo for xp
3. Despite my sustained DPS sucking I have saved groups on several occasions when too many mobs have come back from a pull and there is no mez.
4. I live exploring and traveling and its nice to not have to look for a port if I want to go somewhere else.

Btw Ace good to see an old TZer. I remember doing some Kedge runs with you and KoTWR. Ace is King of Kedge!

Agree, why are we only 10% more efficient than everybody else, while giving up a LOT

[Atmas]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Illegitimate comparison. Yeah, Wizards aren't supposed to be sustained DPS, but they are supposed to be burst DPS. The problem is that they can't actually kill a target quickly at the higher levels.

And this illegitimizes my comment in what way? If you think Wizards aren't up to snuff with burst dps it would make more sense for that to be improved than complain about their sustained dps. Btw what classes kill one mob faster atm?

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your "groups who pull one at a time" statement rings pretty clueless from my vantage point. AoE groups simply are not viable for most of the higher end content. People don't just pull one at a time anyway, multiples are often pulled and the solution is to use MEZMERIZE. Even if the Wizard was better at their intended game purpose, it wouldn't change the way people do combat at the higher levels with the way EQ is currently setup. It would simply make the Wizard more competitive for the 5th and 6th slots in a group, after the necessary base of "Tank, DPS, Enchanter/Bard, (C)Healer" have been achieved.

It may ring "clueless" because you are so obsessed with one aspect of gameplay and being an enchanter. You don't have to group with Wizards if you don't want.

[Weezard]

The best way I can sum up the entire argument here is by this:

Everquest is a marathon 99.9% of the time, and a sprint .1% of the time.

Wizards win the sprint.

Cheers.