Please check my math on Troll vs Ogre Shaman

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They would still be less affected because instead of getting stunned they only have the spell interrupted, at which point they can immediately start casting again. As far as "server performance", you generally want to optimize the system however it currently works. If eventually they want to change the system, it will be easy enough to simply change the code.

The problem is you do not understand how trivial an optimization that is. We are taking about one integer variable on the heap. Micro optimizations are not usually preferred over flexibility, unless there is a specific need. This calculation is not being run hundreds of thousands of times per second. You wouldn't be sending this data over the network, either. Losing your ability to set individual percentages and keep the functions generic is not worth one integer variable on the heap.

I see no serious "lore" issue either. If your skull is too thick to be stunned, and your weight makes you difficult to move around, a bash would have much less affect on any actions you are taking, including spell casting.

It makes complete sense from programming optimization, programming design patterns, and lore.

[DMN]

A programmer would never intentionally write shitty code. What you are suggesting is someone intentionally wrote shitty code in the hopes that the shitty code might eventually become an "ugly duckling" and morph into something not shitty.

And i already debunked your "lore" claim. Not wasting my time to do it again.

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The best outcome you don't get stunned or interrupted. RPG wise you got hit the softest.
The second worst outcome you get your spell immediately interrupted. RPG wise you got hit the second hardest.
The worst outcome you spell is immediately interrupted and you are stunned for 1.5 seconds. RPG wise you got hit the hardest possible. Similar to a "critical hit".


"Gee, I'm glad that guy hit me so damn hard. If only the fool would have hit me much softer would it have interrupted my spell." -- not logical RPG dialogue



So it's pretty piss poor logic from an RPG perspective as well server performance perspective.

[greenspectre]

Read entire thread, now just stoked for Kunark and Epic/Torpor/Fungi/FunStick and becoming a solo god. Thanks, thread, for hyping up my class even more!

[BlackBellamy]

Originally Posted by greenspectre [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Read entire thread, now just stoked for Kunark and Epic/Torpor/Fungi/FunStick and becoming a solo god. Thanks, thread, for hyping up my class even more!

Yeah me too and I would like to thank everyone involved in crunching the numbers and going through all the mechanics step by step so that my belief that race choice for a Shaman is not very material is reinforced.

For some classes race choice matters a lot. But when you have 6 pages of people arguing 8 vs 12 regen rates then I know that for Shaman it doesn't matter at all.

Which is awesome because nothing is more important than fashionquest. I fucking hate when stats get in the way of looking awesome.

[greenspectre]

Originally Posted by BlackBellamy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which is awesome because nothing is more important than fashionquest. I fucking hate when stats get in the way of looking awesome.

Barb shammy here and never looking back.

[sonofbaal]

Originally Posted by greenspectre [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Read entire thread, now just stoked for Kunark and Epic/Torpor/Fungi/FunStick and becoming a solo god. Thanks, thread, for hyping up my class even more!

yeah but



.....





but what race?

I think ogre if it wasnt for the clicky snare tbh. Ogre bash immunity, while not recovering as much health , recovers it (by saving from getting hit) in smaller bursts, by preventing mobs hitting on you more because you land that root/slow.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A programmer would never intentionally write shitty code. What you are suggesting is someone intentionally wrote shitty code in the hopes that the shitty code might eventually become an "ugly duckling" and morph into something not shitty.

And i already debunked your "lore" claim. Not wasting my time to do it again.

The lore claim doesn't only go your way, that is your opinion. Also, lore does not always dictate game mechanics, even if I grant your lore is superior. Often times the code base is more important than getting an exact bit of lore just right.

A programmer should not write shitty code. Your suggestion was shitty code[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Not being mean here, but it is the truth. Your design pattern is very limited, has no optimization benefits, and is specifically designed to make stun immunity less effective. You have no evidence to suggest the Dev's specifically designed it this way. Also, if you looked at this link I posted here:

https://fanra.fandom.com/wiki/Skill_...Combat_Effects

"As a side investigation, we asked the Devs why a bash that failed to stun was so much more likely to interrupt casting than a bash that would have stunned, but didn't (due to resist or immunity). It turns out that the mechanism first determines if a bash will stun or not; if not a stun, it checks for interrupt or not. When bash was put in to the game, they did not take into account stun immunity or the development of stun resist mods; so that if the first check yeilds a (potential) stun, it doesn't check for interrupt (assuming the stun would do the interrupting). The Ogre racial immunity to frontal stuns seems to be well worth the 70 levels of experience penalty at this point."

This quote supports my design pattern. It is even better for Ogres if it is true, because they were lazy and simply used the stun component as the interrupt component when a stun landed. Stun Immunity was a special case for 4 expansions. It makes complete sense that they would build it this way in the beginning, and only change it later when they started building the AA system, which was post Velious.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by sonofbaal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yeah but



.....





but what race?

I think ogre if it wasnt for the clicky snare tbh. Ogre bash immunity, while not recovering as much health , recovers it (by saving from getting hit) in smaller bursts, by preventing mobs hitting on you more because you land that root/slow.

Thanks for sticking it out on the whole thread! Trust me when I say the snare necklace isn't that great. I have it on another character. The snare length is short, the snare % is poor, and it gets resisted quite a bit.

I tested Clinging Darkness on my Shadowknight last night. The snare is so bad, if you FD with the mob snared, the mob will start pathing back, instead of standing in place. It paths back slowly, but it still moves lol. As I said before, the mob also doesn't stop running until 10% when the snare is applied. This severely limits it's reasonable use cases.

As to DMN's earlier point about camping out a mob with snare and coming back in quickly, I tested this with root as well. Root does not always break automatically when you camp. So the necklace doesn't even provide the ability to "break camps better".

The only real benefit you will get from the necklace is when you are fear kiting with blind. Fear kiting with blind is limited in it's application, but it can work well against caster mobs that are very dangerous. However, you usually need a large open area to do this effectively. The snare neck will help reduce the area you need, but again, the snare is so bad that the mob is still covering a good amount of ground. You also need to re-cast it a lot.

[greenspectre]

Originally Posted by sonofbaal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yeah but what race?

Barbarian, fuck the haters. Advantages as follows-

-Good race. Sell/bank/travel easier. Every 5 levels make a sojourn back to Everfrost to hang out with my barbarian brothers, get spells, ride a wooly mammoth, listen to people moan that Karg Icebear isn't up. Feelin' cute, might get ganked by Lich of Miragul while looking for the Glacier Bear, idk tho.

-Grobb as a hub for Guk runs is still doable. Already got my merchant faction up to Apprehensive and can ghetto-bank with merchants, too. Troll guards are also fixable, but I'm lazy. Fuck those shamans though and their "We don't believe in wolf-form" bullshit. Cabilis will also still be doable when Kunark releases. I'm thinking of building a summer home there.

-Fashionquest. I can't even begin to describe the amount of tail my huge rippling muscles and shiny totemic plate armor has gotten me so far. Darkelves, woodelves, fellow barbarian lasses as well all swoon at the sight of me as I SoW right on by. Don't need Glamour on to attract the ladies, and my armor doesn't look like it's held together with Innoruuk's Dental Floss. I have needed a STA buff on occasion to last those long nights, though. First world problems, I guess.

-I don't have to worry about the Troll vs Ogre debate if I am neither! Can just take big sips.

-If Loramin can solo the Seb Crypt then someday I can, too. Good enough for me!

[loramin]

Originally Posted by BlackBellamy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For some classes race choice matters a lot. But when you have 6 pages of people arguing 8 vs 12 regen rates then I know that for Shaman it doesn't matter at all.

I truly think this is the correct takeaway.

Originally Posted by greenspectre [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If Loramin can solo the Seb Crypt then someday I can, too. Good enough for me!

I highly recommend it, only ... do so at an off time, like late at night: if you try and solo a good chunk of a larger 6-person camp (CE, Crypt/Emperor) during prime time, you are going to make a lot of players mad (and there are forum threads here that prove it) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]