/list feature first phase completed - reviews and suggestions for the future

[loramin]

I'm sorry, I try not to shit on other people's ideas in general, but ...

EVERYONE HERE WANTING TO EARN POINTS IS WRONG!

Look, if you want guaranteed rewards, there are umpteen million other MMOGs out there. EverQuest (at least not the version most people remember) has never been about guaranteed rewards!

The game only has two mechanisms that work that way: faction and plat. Faction on its own is almost completely useless (modulo weird exceptions like Droga faction for the first Chardok ring), and plat ... well mostly plat isn't a guaranteed reward. If you sit and farm Hill Giants or Sea Furies it sort of is, but even then A) it's random how much you get, and B) you won't get much in the grand scheme of things. If you really want to earn plat in classic EQ, you earn items and sell them, and those are not guaranteed.

99% of anything worth having in the game boils down to luck and patience. Want to breathe underwater? Be patient waiting for Hadden, and lucky enough for him to drop the earring. Same thing for fungi tunic, and the same thing for almost all raid gear (there are a few predictable drops, but they're the vast minority).

EverQuest was never about "if I show up enough times I know I'll get handed loot", so it would be incredibly unclassic for any system (list or otherwise) to work that way here.

[Dolalin]

There is no /list that won't be bad somehow. It's the very definition of a least-worst option.

It is the shittiest solution except for all the others that have been tried.

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sorry, I try not to shit on other people's ideas in general, but ...

EVERYONE HERE WANTING TO EARN POINTS IS WRONG!

Look, if you want guaranteed rewards, there are umpteen million other MMOGs out there. EverQuest (at least not the version most people remember) has never been about guaranteed rewards!

The game only has two mechanisms that work that way: faction and plat. Faction on its own is almost completely useless (modulo weird exceptions like Droga faction for the first Chardok ring), and plat ... well mostly plat isn't a guaranteed reward. If you sit and farm Hill Giants or Sea Furies it sort of is, but even then A) it's random how much you get, and B) you won't get much in the grand scheme of things. If you really want to earn plat in classic EQ, you earn items and sell them, and those are not guaranteed.

99% of anything worth having in the game boils down to luck and patience. Want to breathe underwater? Be patient waiting for Hadden, and lucky enough for him to drop the earring. Same thing for fungi tunic, and the same thing for almost all raid gear (there are a few predictable drops, but they're the vast minority).

EverQuest was never about "if I show up enough times I know I'll get handed loot", so it would be incredibly unclassic for any system (list or otherwise) to work that way here.

tru, but i a wizard could get lucky enough to win a roll on a fungi tunic, and trade that for something else that I wanted, but didn't want to spend months farming

Or I could just spend months hanging around seb and most likely get a fungi tunic, wasn't garanteed, but the gods usually relent

nothing comes easily or readily or in a formuliac way in that regard not unless you have infininite time, which some of us admittidly have (but should not)

also... some melees are better at farming gobs, and some wizards are better at quading specs for plat etc... were as enchanters admitedly can make the most money by hunting high value items, and such, giving people different options, its kinda lame when a lazy enchanter moves in on a melees or priests 'spot' but such is life also in EQ

[loramin]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

tru, but i a wizard could get lucky enough to win a roll on a fungi tunic, and trade that for something else that I wanted, but didn't want to spend months farming

Or I could just spend months hanging around seb and most likely get a fungi tunic, wasn't garanteed, but the gods usually relent

nothing comes easily or readily or in a formuliac way in that regard not unless you have infininite time, which some of us admittidly have (but should not)

also... some melees are better at farming gobs, and some wizards are better at quading specs for plat etc... were as enchanters admitedly can make the most money by hunting high value items, and such, giving people different options, its kinda lame when a lazy enchanter moves in on a melees or priests 'spot' but such is life also in EQ

Right, but the core point is, whatever you choose to farm, you progress through patience and luck ... not a guarantee that if you do X number of daily tasks (or AFK checks, or whatever) you get Y reward.

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is no /list that won't be bad somehow. It's the very definition of a least-worst option.

It is the shittiest solution except for all the others that have been tried.

The only acceptable solution would be for us to be back in 1999 again.

Altavista, Yahoo, AOL, denim jackets and 14" CRT monitors that make a bzzzert noise on power up.

As soon as Sheldon and his friends are done with the computations, we're going there.

[Zephire]

Originally Posted by Jibien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just my two cents take it with a grain of salt:

The /list system was interesting to say the least but the amount of people who join a /list and FD till they hit #1, or even just to loot their item, was insane.

I think the lockout on the item drops should be permanent per toon. Get the item 1ce and move on or level another toon to farm.

1-This allows equal opportunity to the coveted loot (which I think is the whole purpose of the /list system)

2- This prevents people from hoarding the items and messing up the economy before it is even started (too late to an extent)

3-Makes the account sharing a mute point because once each toon has the item they will be unable to farm the camp again on that toon. (this promotes more alt leveling and could help noobs find groups in soon to be empty zones)

4- Anyone wanting to collect the "Lion's Share" as it was put can level multiple toons and do so while the casual gamers don't have to lose a camp to the same toon multiple times.

I like this idea!

[mickey_mcfly]

I think the list system is honestly mostly fine, and absolutely better than most alternatives.

One thing that could be improved is that right now there is an incentive to train list camps. If you’re a caster blind outside the dungeon you will make it back in time. If you are a melee you probably will not.

I think if you die in a list area you should have like 60-90 minutes to get back to the list area. Once you get back this extra time would reset to normal.

[phr0stbyt3]

I like the idea of a time accrual camp with everything set to lore. That way even the account sharers can get first dibs, but not camp the items until they stop dropping. The current implementation was certainly better than investing actual manpower due to lack of an army of guides/GM, but I think it just created a theme-park-like attraction where I was pretending to have a fun "classic experience".

However...
Why not just put the classic items on vendors with cooldowns? I.e. one person can buy one every 6/8/10/12 hours for jboots/rubi/guise/manastone, make them lore until a certain point in time like when/if green merges with blue, and make them 2.5k/5k/7.5k/10k. Maybe a /list feature on top of that as well. That way there's still a time and money sink but:
1) nobody has to pretend it's classic when it really isn't
2) there's much more opportunity to get the item you want without resenting the /list feature when you can't share your account with someone
3) the grind for money creates a much more vibrant economy and rewarding environment for everyone on the server instead of just sitting around idle waiting for an item we know is going to stop dropping
4) making these items actually cost money mandates that you have a vested interest in the game instead of just a free-for-all entitlement system where you can /AFK and /hide or bard invis the entire time until your number comes up.

Yes these items were heavily camped by the top guilds in classic, but EVERYONE had the advantage of hindsight knowing these would stop dropping. I don't see a way to recreate the actual classic experience when we know ahead of time what the future holds.

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by phr0stbyt3 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like the idea of a time accrual camp with everything set to lore. That way even the account sharers can get first dibs, but not camp the items until they stop dropping. The current implementation was certainly better than investing actual manpower due to lack of an army of guides/GM, but I think it just created a theme-park-like attraction where I was pretending to have a fun "classic experience".

However...
Why not just put the classic items on vendors with cooldowns? I.e. one person can buy one every 6/8/10/12 hours for jboots/rubi/guise/manastone, make them lore until a certain point in time like when/if green merges with blue, and make them 2.5k/5k/7.5k/10k. Maybe a /list feature on top of that as well. That way there's still a time and money sink but:
1) nobody has to pretend it's classic when it really isn't
2) there's much more opportunity to get the item you want without resenting the /list feature when you can't share your account with someone
3) the grind for money creates a much more vibrant economy and rewarding environment for everyone on the server instead of just sitting around idle waiting for an item we know is going to stop dropping
4) making these items actually cost money mandates that you have a vested interest in the game instead of just a free-for-all entitlement system where you can /AFK and /hide or bard invis the entire time until your number comes up.

Yes these items were heavily camped by the top guilds in classic, but EVERYONE had the advantage of hindsight knowing these would stop dropping. I don't see a way to recreate the actual classic experience when we know ahead of time what the future holds.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ that is exactly how wow got 250million subscribers, in theory its' 'fair' 'balanced' and decreases the suicide rate of the addicted gamblers and the people who farm for irl pizza dough

but it ruins the life of the game and the drama of people interacting with each other....

the alternative is to have dedicated GMs drop thy bannhamer at any camp where there is no RP - sadly - people need guidance, the flock will just lemming right over a cliff otherwise

[phr0stbyt3]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ that is exactly how wow got 250million subscribers, in theory its' 'fair' 'balanced' and decreases the suicide rate of the addicted gamblers and the people who farm for irl pizza dough

but it ruins the life of the game and the drama of people interacting with each other....

the alternative is to have dedicated GMs drop thy bannhamer at any camp where there is no RP - sadly - people need guidance, the flock will just lemming right over a cliff otherwise

Did you participate in any of the lists? I would argue the "life" of the game at one of those camps was completely gone. Making them available at vendors would add value to other parts of the game, but the lists themselves are silly theme park experiences to me. I would equate it to watching hours of Disneyland streamers go on rides, then going to the themepark yourself only to wait in line for 6 hours to enjoy a 30 second ride. Oh, it's also going to cost you $500 to get in the gates.