"Need before greed"

[bum3]

Originally Posted by GuiltyLight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... yes. Yes it is. There is no actual difference between you wanting to not spend money on the item and then get money from selling it later, and other people rolling on it to sell it in the tunnel. It's all greed.

If a good item drops, no one needs it. There's no such thing as needing an item. Everyone wants it because everyone is greedy. Because it's going to make them more powerful or get the more platinum or make them look fabulous. It's greed. Who can equip it is irrelevant.

Also what are you talking about about how that character is you? It's a video game. Even D&D is just a role-playing game, and an MMO is a pretty far cry from a pencil and paper RPG to begin with. Shaniqua the wood elf Ranger doesn't exist. And her player doesn't need that fbss any more than anyone else in the group does.

There is a reason historians say in order for civilization to proceed in a positive direction you must burn all lawyers first. A class can need an item. A warrior needs proccing weps to be viable. Sure he can dps without it but he isn't tanking anything. A wizard winning fbss to equip an alt isn't need. Sure he can buy an int item that will help him once every few hours when hes full mana because he afk'd during a group and got it. Otherwise he has int to increase his mana that he rarely gets to use when it matters. Point of MMO and DnD and other roleplay games is to be the character.. not be you. There's a reason they are MMORPGs and not just MMOs. Only greedy people use arguments like yours. The warrior needs ac gear and proccing items because he wants to hold agro for his groups and he wants to not take excess damage that didn't need to be taken. And you are selfish in thinking that item he looted only benefits you for the short while hes with you so he shouldn't get it over you. You are probably the person who thinks that warrior sucked because he took more damage than he should have or that he couldn't keep agro for anything. But hey that's just my opinion as a person who passes on almost all loot for people as upgrades even if it's a slight upgrade for me.

[Meiva]

If no loot drops for our group I'll inspect for an item another member is wearing and he will then put that item up for random.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by bum3 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is a reason historians say in order for civilization to proceed in a positive direction you must burn all lawyers first. A class can need an item. A warrior needs proccing weps to be viable. Sure he can dps without it but he isn't tanking anything. A wizard winning fbss to equip an alt isn't need. Sure he can buy an int item that will help him once every few hours when hes full mana because he afk'd during a group and got it. Otherwise he has int to increase his mana that he rarely gets to use when it matters. Point of MMO and DnD and other roleplay games is to be the character.. not be you. There's a reason they are MMORPGs and not just MMOs. Only greedy people use arguments like yours. The warrior needs ac gear and proccing items because he wants to hold agro for his groups and he wants to not take excess damage that didn't need to be taken. And you are selfish in thinking that item he looted only benefits you for the short while hes with you so he shouldn't get it over you. You are probably the person who thinks that warrior sucked because he took more damage than he should have or that he couldn't keep agro for anything. But hey that's just my opinion as a person who passes on almost all loot for people as upgrades even if it's a slight upgrade for me.

Agree with you. Seems like a pretty ridiculous argument some people are making in this thread that because the "needer" may eventually replace the item with an upgrade at some vague point in time down the road (and then likely sell the old item that they rolled need on, possibly months before they sold it) that they can't roll need on something. If I was in a group with people like that I'd leave the group (and I've also never actually seen people apply the theory of no need rolls at all in a group before, so it seems like that's an extreme minority opinion).

[Smellybuttface]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agree with you. Seems like a pretty ridiculous argument some people are making in this thread that because the "needer" may eventually replace the item with an upgrade at some vague point in time down the road (and then likely sell the old item that they rolled need on, possibly months before they sold it) that they can't roll need on something. If I was in a group with people like that I'd leave the group (and I've also never actually seen people apply the theory of no need rolls at all in a group before, so it seems like that's an extreme minority opinion).

Exactly the point I made earlier. There is a large disparity between what people are espousing in the forums and what is actually occurring in-game. NBG seems the norm is most every group I come across, and yet here on this thread it’s led by those largely against Need before Greed. I don’t understand this chasm of difference between in-game culture and our-of-game theory.

[Fawqueue]

Originally Posted by Smellybuttface [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly the point I made earlier. There is a large disparity between what people are espousing in the forums and what is actually occurring in-game. NBG seems the norm is most every group I come across, and yet here on this thread it’s led by those largely against Need before Greed. I don’t understand this chasm of difference between in-game culture and our-of-game theory.

It's because people's ideas and actions are often two very different things. On the forums we are debating the merits of different loot systems, in a bubble, without anyone being disappointed or frustrated with us. However, in-game, after grouping with people for a few hours and seeing how excited they are when something they want drops, it's a lot harder to tell that person no right to their face. On average, most people are non-confrontational and friendly no matter how big a game they talk here.

People only like rocking the boats they aren't currently sitting in.

[Siege]

Originally Posted by Kanuvan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

most things are tradeable which can be sold or traded for other items and potential upgrades, if you let someone impose NBG on you you are being scammed, i need that 2k just as much as you need that +5 int and +10 mana

You should never roll on an item thinking that you're going to get anywhere near the Wiki price. The item values on the Wiki are often best-case scenario. They're also subject to fairly rapid change on a fresh server like Green. You should also take into consideration that the time you spend sitting in EC is time you could be spending leveling up your character and collecting increasingly valuable loot. That single roll might actually end up costing you precious plat in the long run.

Second of all, you need to ask yourself if not allowing the casters in your group to loot a potentially BiS item is worth your reputation. One or more of the people who watched you do that might never want to group with you again, even if they didn't need the item. Pixel lust is certainly one of the ways that I gauge a person's character on P99. That one moment might have cost you a lot of future groups with cool people who would have allowed you to loot whatever you needed, no questions asked. That's how my buddies and I roll. You do something decent for us and we pay you back tenfold.

You might also be giving an item to an unappreciative person, but I'd rather err on the side of 'doing the right thing' because it feels good to rise above the pixel lust by letting go of all attachment to a potentially big-ticket item.

[TripSin]

Originally Posted by Siege [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should never roll on an item thinking that you're going to get anywhere near the Wiki price. The item values on the Wiki are often best-case scenario. They're also subject to fairly rapid change on a fresh server like Green. You should also take into consideration that the time you spend sitting in EC is time you could be spending leveling up your character and collecting increasingly valuable loot. That single roll might actually end up costing you precious plat in the long run.

Second of all, you need to ask yourself if not allowing the casters in your group to loot a potentially BiS item is worth your reputation. One or more of the people who watched you do that might never want to group with you again, even if they didn't need the item. Pixel lust is certainly one of the ways that I gauge a person's character on P99. That one moment might have cost you a lot of future groups with cool people who would have allowed you to loot whatever you needed, no questions asked. That's how my buddies and I roll. You do something decent for us and we pay you back tenfold.

You might also be giving an item to an unappreciative person, but I'd rather err on the side of 'doing the right thing' because it feels good to rise above the pixel lust by letting go of all attachment to a potentially big-ticket item.

finally some sense in a cesspool [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Fawqueue]

Originally Posted by Siege [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should never roll on an item thinking that you're going to get anywhere near the Wiki price. The item values on the Wiki are often best-case scenario. They're also subject to fairly rapid change on a fresh server like Green. You should also take into consideration that the time you spend sitting in EC is time you could be spending leveling up your character and collecting increasingly valuable loot. That single roll might actually end up costing you precious plat in the long run.

Second of all, you need to ask yourself if not allowing the casters in your group to loot a potentially BiS item is worth your reputation. One or more of the people who watched you do that might never want to group with you again, even if they didn't need the item. Pixel lust is certainly one of the ways that I gauge a person's character on P99. That one moment might have cost you a lot of future groups with cool people who would have allowed you to loot whatever you needed, no questions asked. That's how my buddies and I roll. You do something decent for us and we pay you back tenfold.

You might also be giving an item to an unappreciative person, but I'd rather err on the side of 'doing the right thing' because it feels good to rise above the pixel lust by letting go of all attachment to a potentially big-ticket item.

Considering your reputation is absolutely important in this game, but I don't think having everyone roll equally on an item is going to harm it. If everyone understood the loot rules from the beginning, an item drops, and then they all roll nobody is going to consider it gross misconduct on your part. About the only way this is applicable is if everyone thinks they are going to NBG (whether because that's stated or implied) and then when the item drops you either force everyone to random despite protest, or outright ninja-loot it and refuse a roll.

[bum3]

Originally Posted by Siege [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should never roll on an item thinking that you're going to get anywhere near the Wiki price. The item values on the Wiki are often best-case scenario. They're also subject to fairly rapid change on a fresh server like Green. You should also take into consideration that the time you spend sitting in EC is time you could be spending leveling up your character and collecting increasingly valuable loot. That single roll might actually end up costing you precious plat in the long run.

Second of all, you need to ask yourself if not allowing the casters in your group to loot a potentially BiS item is worth your reputation. One or more of the people who watched you do that might never want to group with you again, even if they didn't need the item. Pixel lust is certainly one of the ways that I gauge a person's character on P99. That one moment might have cost you a lot of future groups with cool people who would have allowed you to loot whatever you needed, no questions asked. That's how my buddies and I roll. You do something decent for us and we pay you back tenfold.

You might also be giving an item to an unappreciative person, but I'd rather err on the side of 'doing the right thing' because it feels good to rise above the pixel lust by letting go of all attachment to a potentially big-ticket item.

I am no longer religious but i'd like and subscribe this message.

[Evia]

I love all this kumbaya shit! Really no troll I do! It’s inspiring to see a bunch of white knights ‘rising above the pixel lust’ and supporting one another’s characters to help them reach their goals and achievements. Also incredible you’re all running into NBG groups as the ‘norm’

But seriously what p99 servers you guys on? LOL. I’d say it’s a 90/10 ratio on loot rules in pick up groups and that 10 being the percentage to utilize NBG. Maybe on live it was more 50/50 or even favoring NBG a bit.

The reason my opinion shifted from a fierce NBG supporter (for everything you guys have already mentioned) into a fierce ‘Everyone rolls for anything valuable’ is because having everyone roll is the fairest system. This way you’re not taking away a contributors ability to benefit from the kill. All members of the party get equal shot at the riches. No matter if the winner benefits via equipping or selling the item, the end results the same...character upgrades. The NBG mindset TOTALLY applies when the item is NO DROP because the only way anyone is benefiting from that kill are those who can EQUIP IT.

Now my opinion does stay NBG a bit more in regards to spells and words... unless the spell or word in question is worth 3x my net worth. Still tho I’d pass on Torpor for example if I was grouped with a 60 shaman that would scribe the thing on the spot. If he’s 59 tho probably not! He doesn’t technically need it at the time...

Lol see so I’m not exactly black and white on the topic either... and tbh will generally always be down to go along with NBG groups if that’s the groups majority opinion. Just maybe I wouldn’t be disillusioned into believing that by utilizing a NBG system you’re the Fair and Just Saint doing the ‘right’ thing in the scenario cause ehhhhhh, it can easily be debated that being fair to ALL is actually the right way to be excellent to everyone equally.