"Need before greed"

[GuiltyLight]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think it's greed if you need the item at the time and use it and then sell it later though...

Explain to me how it is any functionally different to equip an item right then or to sell it and get something you want. Explain to me how everyone rolling on everything in pick up groups is in any way not the best, most fair method for distributing loot, while simultaneously avoiding all of the scam artists and hypocrisies of nbg.

Everything is greed. There is no such thing as need in-game, and wanting an item for any reason is greed. Just because you want to think of greed as a negative word doesn't change anything.

Now if you're with a group of friends or guildmates, that's one thing. Although even that in a way is greed because you want the people you ride with to become stronger, so you can get more stuff. But a bunch of just random strangers? I don't trust any of them. And none of them need the worth of an item more than I do, and vice versa.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by GuiltyLight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Explain to me how it is any functionally different to equip an item right then or to sell it and get something you want. Explain to me how everyone rolling on everything in pick up groups is in any way not the best, most fair method for distributing loot, while simultaneously avoiding all of the scam artists and hypocrisies of nbg.

Everything is greed. There is no such thing as need in-game, and wanting an item for any reason is greed. Just because you want to think of greed as a negative word doesn't change anything.

Now if you're with a group of friends or guildmates, that's one thing. Although even that in a way is greed because you want the people you ride with to become stronger, so you can get more stuff. But a bunch of just random strangers? I don't trust any of them. And none of them need the worth of an item more than I do, and vice versa.

Simple. If it’s something that person actually needs at that moment in time, then I’m fine with them rolling on it. Sure, when Kunark or Velious come out they’ll probably end up replacing it. But if they use it for awhile then I have no issue with them rolling need on it.

[Hazek]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think it's greed if you need the item at the time and use it and then sell it later though...

You're rolling on the currency or value that's contained in that item. And what you do with that is irrelevant; whether you keep it in the original by equipping it, whether you use it on tradeskills, or whether you buy another item makes no difference.

[Fawqueue]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think it's greed if you need the item at the time and use it and then sell it later though...

But what item truly constitutes as a need in this game? A need is an necessity that you cannot do without. Greed is something you want, because it makes life easier or you will simply enjoy it. In EverQuest, a key that provides access might be considered a need since you are prevented from content without it. However, droppable gear is simply something you desire because it makes things more convenient..but you could easily continue to play without it.

So if somebody in your group says they 'need' that item that just dropped, what they really mean is "that would make things a more convenient for me, so I want it. Even though you could sell it to make things more convenient for you, I think I deserve it because it says WAR and you are not a WAR and rather than be fair about this I want us to cater to bogus circumstantial coincidence and prey upon your societal desire to follow rules and be a good citizen."

[bum3]

Originally Posted by GuiltyLight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... yes. Yes it is. There is no actual difference between you wanting to not spend money on the item and then get money from selling it later, and other people rolling on it to sell it in the tunnel. It's all greed.

If a good item drops, no one needs it. There's no such thing as needing an item. Everyone wants it because everyone is greedy. Because it's going to make them more powerful or get the more platinum or make them look fabulous. It's greed. Who can equip it is irrelevant.

Also what are you talking about about how that character is you? It's a video game. Even D&D is just a role-playing game, and an MMO is a pretty far cry from a pencil and paper RPG to begin with. Shaniqua the wood elf Ranger doesn't exist. And her player doesn't need that fbss any more than anyone else in the group does.

There is a reason historians say in order for civilization to proceed in a positive direction you must burn all lawyers first. A class can need an item. A warrior needs proccing weps to be viable. Sure he can dps without it but he isn't tanking anything. A wizard winning fbss to equip an alt isn't need. Sure he can buy an int item that will help him once every few hours when hes full mana because he afk'd during a group and got it. Otherwise he has int to increase his mana that he rarely gets to use when it matters. Point of MMO and DnD and other roleplay games is to be the character.. not be you. There's a reason they are MMORPGs and not just MMOs. Only greedy people use arguments like yours. The warrior needs ac gear and proccing items because he wants to hold agro for his groups and he wants to not take excess damage that didn't need to be taken. And you are selfish in thinking that item he looted only benefits you for the short while hes with you so he shouldn't get it over you. You are probably the person who thinks that warrior sucked because he took more damage than he should have or that he couldn't keep agro for anything. But hey that's just my opinion as a person who passes on almost all loot for people as upgrades even if it's a slight upgrade for me.

[Meiva]

If no loot drops for our group I'll inspect for an item another member is wearing and he will then put that item up for random.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by bum3 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is a reason historians say in order for civilization to proceed in a positive direction you must burn all lawyers first. A class can need an item. A warrior needs proccing weps to be viable. Sure he can dps without it but he isn't tanking anything. A wizard winning fbss to equip an alt isn't need. Sure he can buy an int item that will help him once every few hours when hes full mana because he afk'd during a group and got it. Otherwise he has int to increase his mana that he rarely gets to use when it matters. Point of MMO and DnD and other roleplay games is to be the character.. not be you. There's a reason they are MMORPGs and not just MMOs. Only greedy people use arguments like yours. The warrior needs ac gear and proccing items because he wants to hold agro for his groups and he wants to not take excess damage that didn't need to be taken. And you are selfish in thinking that item he looted only benefits you for the short while hes with you so he shouldn't get it over you. You are probably the person who thinks that warrior sucked because he took more damage than he should have or that he couldn't keep agro for anything. But hey that's just my opinion as a person who passes on almost all loot for people as upgrades even if it's a slight upgrade for me.

Agree with you. Seems like a pretty ridiculous argument some people are making in this thread that because the "needer" may eventually replace the item with an upgrade at some vague point in time down the road (and then likely sell the old item that they rolled need on, possibly months before they sold it) that they can't roll need on something. If I was in a group with people like that I'd leave the group (and I've also never actually seen people apply the theory of no need rolls at all in a group before, so it seems like that's an extreme minority opinion).

[Smellybuttface]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agree with you. Seems like a pretty ridiculous argument some people are making in this thread that because the "needer" may eventually replace the item with an upgrade at some vague point in time down the road (and then likely sell the old item that they rolled need on, possibly months before they sold it) that they can't roll need on something. If I was in a group with people like that I'd leave the group (and I've also never actually seen people apply the theory of no need rolls at all in a group before, so it seems like that's an extreme minority opinion).

Exactly the point I made earlier. There is a large disparity between what people are espousing in the forums and what is actually occurring in-game. NBG seems the norm is most every group I come across, and yet here on this thread it’s led by those largely against Need before Greed. I don’t understand this chasm of difference between in-game culture and our-of-game theory.

[Fawqueue]

Originally Posted by Smellybuttface [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly the point I made earlier. There is a large disparity between what people are espousing in the forums and what is actually occurring in-game. NBG seems the norm is most every group I come across, and yet here on this thread it’s led by those largely against Need before Greed. I don’t understand this chasm of difference between in-game culture and our-of-game theory.

It's because people's ideas and actions are often two very different things. On the forums we are debating the merits of different loot systems, in a bubble, without anyone being disappointed or frustrated with us. However, in-game, after grouping with people for a few hours and seeing how excited they are when something they want drops, it's a lot harder to tell that person no right to their face. On average, most people are non-confrontational and friendly no matter how big a game they talk here.

People only like rocking the boats they aren't currently sitting in.