"Need before greed"

[Jean-Baptiste Cutting]

Originally Posted by M.J. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Didn't bother reading through all this crap because like most people that favor NBG and GBN when it favors me, I prefer my own opinion to those of people I assume are idiots for wasting their breath on the subject.

Should a cleric get to NBG a thick banded belt because it allows them to wear 3 more pieces of zero wisdom ac only Bronze without becoming encumbered?

Should a warrior without procs on their weapons get to take anything with dex over a melee with a proc weapon?

Should level 49 research words worth 1-2k each ever got to a class that can't use it?

The answer to any of those questions is OFC yes or no depending on whether or not it benefits you. How many people would keep their mouth shut when they valued the exp from a group over the loot, even if they felt that NBG of a person that took a technical upgrade wasn't warranted because the player in question - like a cleric that takes a high strength item so they can wear higher ac items - never ever does the one thing that would technically justify their getting said item.

The primary justification for always randoming on higher value items is that a person in a group that is ideal for them doesn't deserve the item exclusively because they haven't earned it, or the same person receiving the item won't benefit any of the other persons in a group should those present never group again with one another in the less than ideal conditions that would warrant such upgrades. In effect the upgrade doesn't ever matter unless the "value" of any person who would potentially receive a given item or spell is considered at least equal to the direct potential loss of just a chance at that same loot.

Basically people take offense at GBN when they are the only person whom an item exclusively benefits in a group because it means 5/6 people other than themselves consider them not worthy of foregoing a chance at that same item.

In summary: GBN gets peoples' Irish up because 4/5 people other than the person themselves and the winner of a roll would rather get nothing than do them a favor. This violates basically every rational social model any human being would engage in outside a zero sum MMO setting. The only time you might see such an arrangement is when the spoils are distributed after victory and when a group is "done."

The average pixel adventure is thus an abrupt and premature end that is the equivalent to the end of World War 1: where the victors and those that decide what is fair at the outset of post-war "negotiations" were allowed to take overly long to decide what was best for themselves while very blatantly involving those meant to pay.

Thus while my preference is for whatever benefits me, which would ideally be always getting invited to awesome groups where I gladly embrace NBG because I like and value those I'm grouping with, less than ideally and typically I despise the NBG crowd because they want to rule lawyer their way into loot and advantages whenever it benefits them and not in any principled way, that or they're those that would strong arm me into their "ideal" interpretation of fairness as a condition of joining their little party before I can take their measure.

Anyone that disagrees with any of the above is a moron or a worthless asshole.

Yikes

[Hazek]

Originally Posted by M.J. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Should a cleric get to NBG a thick banded belt because it allows them to wear 3 more pieces of zero wisdom ac only Bronze without becoming encumbered?

Didn't bother reading through all that crap

But no, they should sell it and buy cleric gear.

Duh?

[M.J.]

Originally Posted by Hazek [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Didn't bother reading through all that crap

Looks like you've got moron down!

[Pozzey]

Originally Posted by M.J. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Didn't bother reading through all this crap because like most people that favor NBG and GBN when it favors me, I prefer my own opinion to those of people I assume are idiots for wasting their breath on the subject.

Should a cleric get to NBG a thick banded belt because it allows them to wear 3 more pieces of zero wisdom ac only Bronze without becoming encumbered?

Should a warrior without procs on their weapons get to take anything with dex over a melee with a proc weapon?

Should level 49 research words worth 1-2k each ever got to a class that can't use it?

The answer to any of those questions is OFC yes or no depending on whether or not it benefits you. How many people would keep their mouth shut when they valued the exp from a group over the loot, even if they felt that NBG of a person that took a technical upgrade wasn't warranted because the player in question - like a cleric that takes a high strength item so they can wear higher ac items - never ever does the one thing that would technically justify their getting said item.

The primary justification for always randoming on higher value items is that a person in a group that is ideal for them doesn't deserve the item exclusively because they haven't earned it, or the same person receiving the item won't benefit any of the other persons in a group should those present never group again with one another in the less than ideal conditions that would warrant such upgrades. In effect the upgrade doesn't ever matter unless the "value" of any person who would potentially receive a given item or spell is considered at least equal to the direct potential loss of just a chance at that same loot.

Basically people take offense at GBN when they are the only person whom an item exclusively benefits in a group because it means 5/6 people other than themselves consider them not worthy of foregoing a chance at that same item.

In summary: GBN gets peoples' Irish up because 4/5 people other than the person themselves and the winner of a roll would rather get nothing than do them a favor. This violates basically every rational social model any human being would engage in outside a zero sum MMO setting. The only time you might see such an arrangement is when the spoils are distributed after victory and when a group is "done."

The average pixel adventure is thus an abrupt and premature end that is the equivalent to the end of World War 1: where the victors and those that decide what is fair at the outset of post-war "negotiations" were allowed to take overly long to decide what was best for themselves while very blatantly involving those meant to pay.

Thus while my preference is for whatever benefits me, which would ideally be always getting invited to awesome groups where I gladly embrace NBG because I like and value those I'm grouping with, less than ideally and typically I despise the NBG crowd because they want to rule lawyer their way into loot and advantages whenever it benefits them and not in any principled way, that or they're those that would strong arm me into their "ideal" interpretation of fairness as a condition of joining their little party before I can take their measure.

Anyone that disagrees with any of the above is a moron or a worthless asshole.

... U wot m8?

[aaezil]

Originally Posted by M.J. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Didn't bother reading through all this crap because like most people that favor NBG and GBN when it favors me, I prefer my own opinion to those of people I assume are idiots for wasting their breath on the subject.

Should a cleric get to NBG a thick banded belt because it allows them to wear 3 more pieces of zero wisdom ac only Bronze without becoming encumbered?

Should a warrior without procs on their weapons get to take anything with dex over a melee with a proc weapon?

Should level 49 research words worth 1-2k each ever got to a class that can't use it?

The answer to any of those questions is OFC yes or no depending on whether or not it benefits you. How many people would keep their mouth shut when they valued the exp from a group over the loot, even if they felt that NBG of a person that took a technical upgrade wasn't warranted because the player in question - like a cleric that takes a high strength item so they can wear higher ac items - never ever does the one thing that would technically justify their getting said item.

The primary justification for always randoming on higher value items is that a person in a group that is ideal for them doesn't deserve the item exclusively because they haven't earned it, or the same person receiving the item won't benefit any of the other persons in a group should those present never group again with one another in the less than ideal conditions that would warrant such upgrades. In effect the upgrade doesn't ever matter unless the "value" of any person who would potentially receive a given item or spell is considered at least equal to the direct potential loss of just a chance at that same loot.

Basically people take offense at GBN when they are the only person whom an item exclusively benefits in a group because it means 5/6 people other than themselves consider them not worthy of foregoing a chance at that same item.

In summary: GBN gets peoples' Irish up because 4/5 people other than the person themselves and the winner of a roll would rather get nothing than do them a favor. This violates basically every rational social model any human being would engage in outside a zero sum MMO setting. The only time you might see such an arrangement is when the spoils are distributed after victory and when a group is "done."

The average pixel adventure is thus an abrupt and premature end that is the equivalent to the end of World War 1: where the victors and those that decide what is fair at the outset of post-war "negotiations" were allowed to take overly long to decide what was best for themselves while very blatantly involving those meant to pay.

Thus while my preference is for whatever benefits me, which would ideally be always getting invited to awesome groups where I gladly embrace NBG because I like and value those I'm grouping with, less than ideally and typically I despise the NBG crowd because they want to rule lawyer their way into loot and advantages whenever it benefits them and not in any principled way, that or they're those that would strong arm me into their "ideal" interpretation of fairness as a condition of joining their little party before I can take their measure.

Anyone that disagrees with any of the above is a moron or a worthless asshole.

Every worthwhile discussion thread invariably has one completely off the wall manifesto that is just a huge shitpost.

Behold it.

[Kalamurv]

maybe its because I skimmed through MJ's post, or I'm half cut already....but am I the only one that has trouble following his English?

[damus1]

full "greed" is absolutely the fairest and best option there is, despite its name sounding sinister. the dark side of NBG is when group runners exclude people based on class so they have 100% chance of getting an item drop, which happens more often than you'd think. Asking beforehand and refusing biased "NBG" groups is the way to go. leave nbg for guild or friend groups

[Modwolf]

Originally Posted by M.J. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Didn't bother reading through all this crap because like most people that favor NBG and GBN when it favors me, I prefer my own opinion to those of people I assume are idiots for wasting their breath on the subject.

Should a cleric get to NBG a thick banded belt because it allows them to wear 3 more pieces of zero wisdom ac only Bronze without becoming encumbered?

Should a warrior without procs on their weapons get to take anything with dex over a melee with a proc weapon?

Should level 49 research words worth 1-2k each ever got to a class that can't use it?

The answer to any of those questions is OFC yes or no depending on whether or not it benefits you. How many people would keep their mouth shut when they valued the exp from a group over the loot, even if they felt that NBG of a person that took a technical upgrade wasn't warranted because the player in question - like a cleric that takes a high strength item so they can wear higher ac items - never ever does the one thing that would technically justify their getting said item.

The primary justification for always randoming on higher value items is that a person in a group that is ideal for them doesn't deserve the item exclusively because they haven't earned it, or the same person receiving the item won't benefit any of the other persons in a group should those present never group again with one another in the less than ideal conditions that would warrant such upgrades. In effect the upgrade doesn't ever matter unless the "value" of any person who would potentially receive a given item or spell is considered at least equal to the direct potential loss of just a chance at that same loot.

Basically people take offense at GBN when they are the only person whom an item exclusively benefits in a group because it means 5/6 people other than themselves consider them not worthy of foregoing a chance at that same item.

In summary: GBN gets peoples' Irish up because 4/5 people other than the person themselves and the winner of a roll would rather get nothing than do them a favor. This violates basically every rational social model any human being would engage in outside a zero sum MMO setting. The only time you might see such an arrangement is when the spoils are distributed after victory and when a group is "done."

The average pixel adventure is thus an abrupt and premature end that is the equivalent to the end of World War 1: where the victors and those that decide what is fair at the outset of post-war "negotiations" were allowed to take overly long to decide what was best for themselves while very blatantly involving those meant to pay.

Thus while my preference is for whatever benefits me, which would ideally be always getting invited to awesome groups where I gladly embrace NBG because I like and value those I'm grouping with, less than ideally and typically I despise the NBG crowd because they want to rule lawyer their way into loot and advantages whenever it benefits them and not in any principled way, that or they're those that would strong arm me into their "ideal" interpretation of fairness as a condition of joining their little party before I can take their measure.

Anyone that disagrees with any of the above is a moron or a worthless asshole.

Disagree

[Kohedron]

This MJ fellow had a very merry Christmas

[nightwriter2000]

For me, personally, I'm just here (in a group) to have some fun and hopefully gain exp in the right direction, maybe have some decent group banter. If I gain something material, it's icing on the cake. I personally will usually pass on rolling for something the character I'm on at that moment can't personally use, if there is someone else there playing that can use it. Loot will come eventually, I'm not in any hurry. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now, with that said - I do tend to 'raise my eyebrows', so to speak, if someone has already won the roll on a drop and then rolls again later when the same thing drops again. If I won something, I'll skip rolling on it again until everyone else has a chance. That's just me, though. You guys do what you want. I'm here for the fun. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]