System rotation target ?

[Aadill]

I see the errors in the current system but find the proposed to be a less desirable choice, which is why I am attempting to persuade you.

No one in any guild that's currently racing for targets has one person sitting on their ass for 4 days? Try 2, 4, 6, maybe 12 hours on the weekend or if they are funemployed~ People play in shifts both for the purpose of playing the game and for killing raid mobs. I only track when I'm on which is when I'm xping or going for loot, otherwise I'm not "on-call" for stuff... Ascension doesn't work that way, and neither does TR. When people are "sitting on their hands with their thumb up their ass" they are doing so when they're sitting on their ass IRL reading a book, watching a movie, making dinner, and mashing track every once and a while.

What you perhaps call unnecessary behavior, to some, means at least some level of interaction with the game (even if minimal) that keeps people occupied. I can think of quite a few folks that would gladly log on, kill a mob, and log off for a week till the next spawn if there was a timer that could be set.

An argument I will make FOR your case, is that the players that are online that are doing things such as XPing in PuGs or something all of the sudden drop group to go kill a raid mob. I've done it and I feel bad but I usually try to announce it before hand as a possibility, or stick to guild groups which contain the people that I enjoy being around anyway. That's a flaw in the current system that promotes adherence to the ruleset moreso than social interaction.

[Humwawa]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The "did i win?" comment was directed toward Humwawa. One flamebait deserves another.

Oh, you've won, baby. You've won.

There's a reason you chose this particular non-classic aspect of the emulator, over all the other flaws on the server, to champion. I wonder what it is?

[Skope]

Aadill, i don't want to put alternatives on the table until people can agree that there's a problem. Once that's accomplished you can propose and go through the alternatives to see if you can find something that's more suitable to all parties involved.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

day by day.

I have a tendency to be belligerent, but don't take it personally. I'm actually quite harmless.

[Versus]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aadill, i don't want to put alternatives on the table until people can agree that there's a problem. Once that's accomplished you can propose and go through the alternatives to see if you can find something that's more suitable to all parties involved. .

Here's the thing. Other people *are* thinking of alternatives, and drawing a blank at something that is better than what is established currently. Take the leap, think of something that is better before you get a consensus of agreement. That's what everyone else is doing.

I know I don't want to sit at each and every raid target with 100+ other people counting down the seconds until the spawn. You'd have 50 people literally SITTING on the spawn point, and luck would determine who Naggy/Vox/Inny,etc. aggros. and what guild gets to engage. It would be a fucking mess. Like its been stated a million times over, this server is simply too top heavy for this shit to work, classic be damned.

[Aadill]

Thinking about a recent Innoruuk kill might clue some insight into what to expect - one guild gets FTE, wipes, and the next guild that attempted FTE (or a random guild that attempted FTE) gets agro and finishes the mob off because it never resets. Does a GM then transfer loot? Does the guild decide to give it back? Is that even an expectation? This is lessened by actual competition for even being ready for the mob, whereas a static timed mob would have a lot of these issues. That is the single and largest issue that results from the proposed and why no one here is agreeing to it.. it's more work.

[Skope]

You don't want a clusterfuck? I don't want a hybrid XP penalty. Unfortunately both are classic and what you "want" doesn't compare to what "makes sense." These two are very different statements of which only the latter can be reached by being impartial and unbiased. The one prior is the epitome of bias.

Furthermore, there are ways to get by the training, the kill stealing and generally antisocial behavior that people turn to when somebody takes their pixels. One of those I've proposed already -- be stiffer with the bans. The GMs have ways of finding out just who aggros a mob first and it's been used on this server, a mere /shout would simply let everyone else know. You've got your true FTE.

What would prevent a guild from poopsocking the spawn? make it an hour window. Let 15 guilds sit there the entire time, you shouldn't be dictating who gets a shot anyway -- trakanon does.

It's FTE anyway, phisting. Luck determines who gets it now and it's determined it in original everquest as well. You're creating your own unnecessary problems by stretching the luck to 4 days, weeding out people that the original everquest never did. Let the dragons and community sort it out, not some dumbass mechanic.

Aadill, if you help them kill it then they can thank you. If it aggros you after they're dead then it's yours. What complications?

[baalzy]

If variance is eliminated guilds will be forced to prioritize much of the time on which mobs they want.

The reason being this: No guild is capable of killing Sev/Tal/Gore/Trak/Nag/Vox/CT/Inny/Draco/VS all at the same time. However, there are enough raid capable guilds to engage and kill all those targets at nearly the same time.

If variance is eliminated, much of the time these mobs will all end up dieing withing 20-30 minutes of each other as different guilds will be in position to take them out when they spawn. So while everyone knows when the mobs will spawn, if they're all spawning near enough to each other then guilds will have to prioritize on which mobs they want/need the most.

I know currently TR dominates on full server repops via mobilization & ability when it comes to the Kunark dragons, and they also get a large number of planar pops on these days because they use tactics that are effective, if somewhat douchey when you consider that someone else was up working their way to the mob 20min before you entered the zone. But thats something that the guild should work out amongst themselves.

But this is largely because they're able to be mobilized quickly. If variance were gone, then after the initial scuffle after a patch, everyone now knows when a mob will be popping and can position at what they prioritize on.

TR wants their Trak teeth & Kunark BPs? Well, they're going to be there. Do they also want their Kunark pants? They'll probably be at VS too. Are they also going to be sitting in EJ, SF, DL, SolB, Perma? Probably not. This would leave it up to the individual guilds to decide on what they want to do. Do they compete for Trak or settle for Naggy?

It's not perfect, Time-Of-Death will slide and some encounters will start repopping later compared to others over-time. If the GMs commited to a reboot cycle every 5-8 weeks regardless of patch status just to reset the times this would reset the cycles and start the competition all over again.

Will there be issues with multiple guilds sitting at an individual camp waiting for a repop? Yes. Will the server be dominated by one or two guilds that are big enough and mobile enough to dominate the majority of raid content? Probably not. Will those guilds get the more sought after targets? Probably. Will smaller guilds have chances at old-world raid mobs? Probably a better chance then they do now.

And just for the record, at the moment I'm fine with variance, but I also wouldn't have a problem with removing it.

[Skope]

Refer to baalzy, apparently someone that actually raided during classic.

After a while, you got tiered progression. Some guilds would prioritize trak whereas other guilds would hit VP. Some would cockblock trak and others knew that so they hit VS. Welcome to everquest.

[Asher]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Zepp, the problem isn't that a single guild got a majority of the kills... I played on prexus where KTF was literally 10 steps above everyone else. The problem, though, is that if KTF played here they wouldn't be able to do the same, or have any chance at all. Why? Because of variance.

Keepers were good people. They even managed the rotation and gave any guild(s) a shot at a target if they were ready.

Everything was great until Stasis Fed it up for everyone.

Asher

[Skope]

Asher, they were also a small guild that locked recruiting for damn near their entire duration on the server. Had they played here they'd have no shot because of variance. I played WoW beta with a couple of them, and they were good people.

And yes, statis/PDF were assholes =P