Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[bubur]

Originally Posted by sentinel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well yeah, Chanter is the #1 most played class on Green/Teal. Of course there will be a strong resistance to any negative change to charm.

I just find it interesting how certain some folks are that the current mechanics are classic. None of us know, it is a best guess done by the p99 admins. That's all it is.

p sure its actually druids but whatever. who cares about facts?

the problem im having with this "debate" is people are not reading any nuance in these anecdotes or arguments. what I am actually starting to believe is that charm worked *almost* the same, but there were small changes that made a huge difference in people's willingness to charm

for example: if invis doesnt break charm on classic - what do you do to reliably break charm? this doesn't make the strat infeasible, but it's a lot less in the player's control, therefore less people would do it to solo like they do on p99

or: did charm pets eat group xp? or was there a *belief* that charm pets ate group xp - then no one would want you to do it, even if it was actually very efficient. the community would have pressured enc's, who already didn't want to take the risk, to not do it

or: did going linkdead cause your charm pet to go haywire on you and your entire group? people may have been averse to this for a variety of reasons

for these types of nuance, you can do what you can to recreate classic, but what if being invis while having a charm mob allows someone to exploit and single pull out of a camp, like sneak pulling did before the staff nerfed it? people want 100% classic, but people also don't seem to understand that classic was broken as all fuck in so many weird and everquesty ways

you're asking the staff to do the impossible, or maybe the improbable (because the devs are pretty dang good), but they wont prioritize this over existing issues without EVIDENCE. there DOES need to be evidence, because this is not just a simple "Ok, we'll just tune down dmg on charm pets, or make it easier to resist." that kind of unclassic arbitrary change is opening the door to a lot more negative than youd be solving. help out and find some real evidence or go kick rocks

why am i still typing. this will be buried and people will read five words of my wall of text and say "hurr durr enc bad" or "hurr durr enc good"

end this madness

[kul69]

Originally Posted by bubur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there DOES need to be evidence, because this is not just a simple "Ok, we'll just tune down dmg on charm pets, or make it easier to resist." that kind of unclassic arbitrary change is opening the door to a lot more negative than youd be solving. help out and find some real evidence or go kick rocks

Why is Necro lifetap nerfed then? Why can't pets be given daggers to reduce attack delay? Oh that's right, because it would cause an excessive amount of necro/pet classes to lock down all the content. Same as is happening with Enchanter now.

The whole "needs evidence" argument is pretty damn tired when there are already a dozen non-classic changes implemented specifically to address the same kind of issues we're seeing with Enchanter.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by bubur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

p sure its actually druids but whatever. who cares about facts?

the problem im having with this "debate" is people are not reading any nuance in these anecdotes or arguments. what I am actually starting to believe is that charm worked *almost* the same, but there were small changes that made a huge difference in people's willingness to charm

for example: if invis doesnt break charm on classic - what do you do to reliably break charm? this doesn't make the strat infeasible, but it's a lot less in the player's control, therefore less people would do it to solo like they do on p99

or: did charm pets eat group xp? or was there a *belief* that charm pets ate group xp - then no one would want you to do it, even if it was actually very efficient. the community would have pressured enc's, who already didn't want to take the risk, to not do it

or: did going linkdead cause your charm pet to go haywire on you and your entire group? people may have been averse to this for a variety of reasons

for these types of nuance, you can do what you can to recreate classic, but what if being invis while having a charm mob allows someone to exploit and single pull out of a camp, like sneak pulling did before the staff nerfed it? people want 100% classic, but people also don't seem to understand that classic was broken as all fuck in so many weird and everquesty ways

you're asking the staff to do the impossible, or maybe the improbable (because the devs are pretty dang good), but they wont prioritize this over existing issues without EVIDENCE. there DOES need to be evidence, because this is not just a simple "Ok, we'll just tune down dmg on charm pets, or make it easier to resist." that kind of unclassic arbitrary change is opening the door to a lot more negative than youd be solving. help out and find some real evidence or go kick rocks

why am i still typing. this will be buried and people will read five words of my wall of text and say "hurr durr enc bad" or "hurr durr enc good"

end this madness

I read it all. These are the sorts of reasons I've been giving for why enchanters are more popular on here and why charm is more widely used than it was on live.

I mean, even on blue back in the early days, chanters were a low pop class (6% or so on the like 2013 surveys I saw I think). What changed? Did charm get buffed on blue? Not that I recall. Chanters even went through a number of nerfs since classic on blue. What changed was the SAC got a lot of attention, and people started streaming enchanters, and the wiki got more updates, etc.

During Tecmos's and Noman's heydays when I was making videos and streaming and playing on blue a ton, I got multiple tells almost every time I was on from chanters saying stuff like "Oh man, I never knew how cool enchanters were until I saw your videos!" or "I'm still not great, you make charming look so easy, but I am figuring it out and it is fun!" or "I made a chanter because of you" or picking my brain about a hundred different chanter things. And PMs on the forums. And threads on here. Etc etc.


99.99% OF PEOPLE JUST DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO USE CHARM CORRECTLY!!!

[derpcake2]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

99.99% OF PEOPLE JUST DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO USE CHARM CORRECTLY!!!

This a very rude way of saying "git gud, newbs".

Well done.

[Thrawndor]

Originally Posted by derpcake2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This a very rude way of saying "git gud, newbs".

Well done.

Doesn't make it any less true. Going on 20 years of watching retards do low-brainpower retard moves in game.