Class numbers on Green post Teal.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know how anyone can think charm here is remotely classic. Like do you really think if Enchanters were doing the ridiculous stuff they can on P1999 during the classic era that they wouldn't have been nerfed into the ground? That Verant/Sony would have been cool with a class designed to primarily CC and buff also having the DPS and tanking ability of multiple other players through a fairly reliable charm mechanic? Obviously not. Enchanter charm in classic was more like an extended Bard charm, used more as a form of CC to temporarily get a mob to tank and add some DPS, with the expectation that it would likely break within 30 sec or a minute. It's just far too reliable on P1999 and makes Enchanters super OP.

I used charm back in the day and it worked better than "an extended bard charm." And that was with an idiot-teenager's y2k knowledge of how to play an enchanter. I didn't keep multiple stuns loaded. I didn't know what level mobs were besides "blue it's lower than I am." If I grouped with a sham, I didn't ask for malo on pets too. I did gear for max charisma back in the day, fwiw, but I didn't stack hp and ac when I could to help survive charm breaks.

But yeah. As with Bazia, your reasoning doesn't necessarily follow. No, they wouldn't have designed chanter to do all this stuff on purpose. But they OBVIOUSLY didn't know wtf they were doing with design and only realized stuff needed changes when it became apparent through gameplay. If it took years for a significant number of people to really start making the most of charm, go figure it took years before they changed it. I still clearly remember charm being OP as fuck during exp in the planes. Plane of valor I think? Charming those rock dudes and using them as DPS while sitting on a horsey a ways away since they didn't summon? They did more dps than the rest of my groups and weren't difficult to manage compared to pets on p99. But most people were lazy or bad... they were rocking dire charmed pets that hit like wet noodles but didn't need any effort at all to maintain.


edit - lol. really. the idea of trying to say "would the devs really have done x? that's a horrible idea. of course they wouldn't have" is just so fucking ludicrous. They are the poster children for stupid balance choices. You can't use 2019 MMO player knowledge of MMO balance and attribute it to the devs of classic EQ ever. Lol.

[dekova]

Seems like every thread turns into either:

1. A fight about how classic shit is.
2. A fight about charm being overpowered.
3. A fight about ogre stun immunity.

Looks like we've hit two out of three so far.


So back on topic, does anyone have the time to do some counts on green and teal today so we can compare numbers? Would love to see counts by class and by level taken at relatively the same time. I would do it myself but am running for a plane.

[WaffleztheAndal]

Originally Posted by Bazia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

way more reliable than live which is why you never saw it being used

Where are Skorge and Dolalin when you need to ruin a class. Come on boys duty calls!

[bolobaby]

Originally Posted by dekova [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seems like every thread turns into either:

1. A fight about how classic shit is.
2. A fight about charm being overpowered.
3. A fight about ogre stun immunity.

Looks like we've hit two out of three so far.


So back on topic, does anyone have the time to do some counts on green and teal today so we can compare numbers? Would love to see counts by class and by level taken at relatively the same time. I would do it myself but am running for a plane.

Wait, wait, wait... does Godwin's Law apply here, too?

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Palemoon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is your problem. The mobs MR across the board is far too low.

Is there evidence of this? Again, I'd love to see it if there is because that would be really interesting. The thing with mob stats and abilities is that for something like that the staff (I'm assuming) really needs specifics in order to make changes, because it's such a major part of the game that to change it without specific data as to what it was in 1999 isn't really something you could do.

Are you sure it's that the mob's MR is too low and not that people are just way smarter about using Tash these days? The whole Charm killing strategy has been so fleshed out step-by-step that it's possible people think Charm broke/was more dangerous back in the day when really the danger/break frequency was simply due to people not knowing how to maximize every little piece of the strategy to the utmost.

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I used charm back in the day and it worked better than "an extended bard charm." And that was with an idiot-teenager's y2k knowledge of how to play an enchanter. I didn't keep multiple stuns loaded. I didn't know what level mobs were besides "blue it's lower than I am." If I grouped with a sham, I didn't ask for malo on pets too. I did gear for max charisma back in the day, fwiw, but I didn't stack hp and ac when I could to help survive charm breaks.

But yeah. As with Bazia, your reasoning doesn't necessarily follow. No, they wouldn't have designed chanter to do all this stuff on purpose. But they OBVIOUSLY didn't know wtf they were doing with design and only realized stuff needed changes when it became apparent through gameplay. If it took years for a significant number of people to really start making the most of charm, go figure it took years before they changed it. I still clearly remember charm being OP as fuck during exp in the planes. Plane of valor I think? Charming those rock dudes and using them as DPS while sitting on a horsey a ways away since they didn't summon? They did more dps than the rest of my groups and weren't difficult to manage compared to pets on p99. But most people were lazy or bad... they were rocking dire charmed pets that hit like wet noodles but didn't need any effort at all to maintain.


edit - lol. really. the idea of trying to say "would the devs really have done x? that's a horrible idea. of course they wouldn't have" is just so fucking ludicrous. They are the poster children for stupid balance choices. You can't use 2019 MMO player knowledge of MMO balance and attribute it to the devs of classic EQ ever. Lol.

I agree with this. The fact of the matter is that the Charm killing strategy we see today has been min/maxed as much as it possibly can. People simply didn't realize it could be such an amazing strategy back in the day.

[dekova]

Originally Posted by bolobaby [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait, wait, wait... does Godwin's Law apply here, too?

Shut up you damned Nazi.