your hopes for red99 2.0

[Gustoo]

Thanks Danger and Vex for this exciting discussion. Vex's analysis is really solid and makes me feel strongly that

1. On a grade B server without item loot, there should be no level range, and should be teams (because pvp is meaningless at low levels vs twinks you cannot loot, it exists only for grief)
2. On a grade A server, it is rallos zek rules because fighting at low level and hoping to get loot is really fun, even if you would be better off at a cash camp.

[astuce999]

In case anyone doesn't know this is just yet another troll thread; if there was any hope/excitement/need for a Red99 2.0, they would post it in their own forum.

Stop feeding the trolls.

(I will too, starting *now*)

Astuce

[walfreyydo]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with PVP in everquest today is that people think that PVP is supposed to happen everytime you log in.

Classic everquest PVP is blue PVE with the added stress that you cannot let your guard down.

Modern EQpvp is some leaderboard BS loot box game where rooting nakeds is A LOL HURR DURR

Eq is a real world simulator, and p99 and VzTz red players think its a Purge simulator.

Discord, maybe. But other than that, EQ pvp just simply does not work anymore.

This. Classic PvP was PvE with constant paranoia and it was awesome (if somewhat imbalanced). It pushed even more cooperation as people tended to stick together as groups could usually overcome most of the PVP imbalance. EQ PvP was mostly gear based, but if you had a group of friends you could overcome that easily.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by astuce999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In case anyone doesn't know this is just yet another troll thread; if there was any hope/excitement/need for a Red99 2.0, they would post it in their own forum.

Stop feeding the trolls.

(I will too, starting *now*)

Astuce

No one should have listened to (almost) anyone in that section as far as the direction of that server or rushing it's launch.

They wanted a vztz repeat and the results speak for themselves.

[walfreyydo]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Level 60's spend zero time in level 1-50 zones because they are busy killing high level targets. NO ONE is going to protect noobs from any level 60 that cruises through butcher block slaughtering dwarfs. By the time someone leaves their raid to try to fight that dude, he has already gated after killing every single noob in the zone.

If you like PVP and are a competitive person you will. Thats the point of a PvP server, if all you care about is raiding and PvE content then blue/green is where you should play. People who enjoy PvP are competitive people by nature, and this is the point.

However, you do have a point. If a level 60 wants to grief say, Crushbone, then there isnt much players can do except hope/call in another level 60 (or group of 60s). Perhaps a "Local Defense" type channel is needed? I think many people would come to help if there was a server-wide race/team based chat channel for calling in reinforcements when needed. I think this would be a great solution to the issue you bring up.

Case in point: when I played WoW, I would basically sit and watch the Local Defense channel because I WANTED to PvP and specifically world-pvp, so i dont really buy the argument that no one will come because they are too busy raiding.

[Gustoo]

They would come help eventually. It would be cool. There would be noob slaughter vs noob slaughter but its not so bad. They would also come through and buff their noobs to keep their side strong, so it would balance out.

I am totally on board. If there is no item loot, it might as well be full open pvp between teams. Its the only other thing that mitigates the low level twink player killer besides item loot (and level reqs on thurg skyshrine and kael armor, epics and such)

It completely destroys a wonderful dynamic of the PVP game, but that dynamic only properly exists with item loot, which a lot of people are afraid of.

The ideal server has item loot with all of its challenges because twink vs twink battle is really fun.

The full open makes a lot of sense for anything that isn't item loot. I am in agreement.

P.S. I am rolling blue on nilbogs map.

[Jibartik]

TBH red is easier than blue because red is about hanging out with as many people as you can who will protect you and kill stuff for you.

Blue is about trying to beat difficult content on your own or with as little numbers as possible.

There is a reason every guild that is zerg wins on red until the leaders /q and then the group of "rebels" becomes the next zerg.

[Vexenu]

I think people would be surprised how quick high level teammates would be to protect their lower level allies. I mean, beyond the fact that it's simply fun in itself to PvP and gives higher level players something to do outside of raids, there's also a very practical purpose: because those lower level players are the future members of your high level guilds. They are your feeder system. You NEED to protect them and keep them from being griefed off the server because they represent an asset that appreciates over time. So controlling leveling zones has very real strategic value for teams and is something they need to prioritize as much as acquiring gear. This is the entire concept of zone control and adds a huge layer of richness and complexity to EQ that is only possible with unrestricted Teams PvP.

As an example of how this actually plays out: back in the day on SZ Velious was mostly controlled by the Neutral (Newt) team. So most Newts would do their 30+ leveling there. And because it was safely nestled in EW and fairly isolated, Crystal Caverns was the primary Newt leveling dungeon for 40-50. I played an Iksar (Evil team) Monk on SZ, but I knew CC like the back of my hand from having leveled there extensively on my old server. So I used to solo PvP there a lot and could basically shut the zone down at will by dropping trains on groups and picking people off in the chaos. But I could not get away with this for long, because as soon as word spread that I was there, the Newts would call for backup and a handful of skilled 50+ Newt PvPers would show up to run me off (I was level 45-50 at the time). This was basically standard practice for any zone that a team owned: if you were on an opposing team you could not expect to safely hang out in an enemy zone for long without a fight. And if you were outleveled and outnumbered by the enemy and it was not a fair fight, so be it - that's what you get for invading enemy territory.

[Gustoo]

Game is easy. Reds dead man.

[Danger]

Vexenu, I've really enjoyed your input to this thread, if you had to develop the mechanics for a new pvp server what would you suggest to the staff? How would you divvy up teams and so on, what loot mechanic (if any)