your hopes for red99 2.0

[Sporkotron]

a new red server wont be popular

there is no way to make eq pvp be anything but a grief fest

[Dulu]

Originally Posted by Sporkotron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

a new red server wont be popular

there is no way to make eq pvp be anything but a grief fest

Yes, there is.

EQ itself had 4 different rulesets. And now Live EQ has a totally different PvP system. Then P99 made its own, totally unique PvP ruleset.

World of Warcraft also evolved out of some elements of EQ's PvP. Mostly Sullon Zek. (A teams PvP server based on faction.)

It can work, it's just that some of the server ideas were very bad, and Red seemed to pick and choose the worst elements.

I've written extensively on this subject all over this forum, so I'll just give a brief summation here:


#1 --- 3 Factions, tied to race/religion. Good, evil, neutral. Balance the cities/starting zones/etc. I can link a more in depth explanation of exactly how to balance them if needed. You can't interact with, trade, heal, etc anyone of the opposing faction. You can't even speak to them. (WAY less toxic this way!) Unique chat channels, obviously.

#2 --- FFA PvP in raid zones, and hotly contested high end zones. A player should be able to level to cap, and play the game completely without ever entering a FFA PvP zone. If they enter a raid zone, or something like OOT, it's FFA. Why? Because of griefers and spies.

#3 --- No level restriction on PvP. Same as Sullon Zek and Classic WoW. If you are red, you are dead. The only "Safe zones" should be the starting zones.

#4 --- Player Spell Resistance totally rebalanced. PvP doesn't work well when 95% of spells are resisted. This gives an extreme advantage to players with resist-passing spells, and certain melee classes.

#5 --- Time to kill needs to be decreased. PvP needs to be intense and fast paced, not "swing at each other for 18 minutes until someone drops to 10% and then runs to a zoneline".

#6 --- completely break the idea of zone logging. You should not be able to escape pvp by hitting a zoneline and logging off. This is idiotic and should have been addressed 20 years ago.

#7 ---- No GM intervention. Settle EVERYTHING with PvP. Everything goes. Training, mob stealing, etc.

#8 --- No item or coin loot. Losing stuff discourages people from engaging, more than it encourages people to hunt others. There is a psychological effect that explains this, but basically "Losing hurts twice as bad as winning feels good." You want the PvP to be fast, fun, with little negative impact other than a corpse run.

#9 --- Disable every element of /who , even for your own faction. (Will be completely abused, just like it is on Red) Even /anon doesn't help, because people can infer from your online numbers or your history where you are and what you might be doing. Get rid of it for any PvP server.

[walfreyydo]

I like your ideas but see some major flaws:

Originally Posted by Dulu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

#1 --- 3 Factions, tied to race/religion. - this is more imbalanced than "teams" pvp was - problem is some teams not having access to critical classes (ie: bards, druids, shamans). This is the primary reason there was cross-teams guilds on Tallon Zek which really broke the server (Pandemonium, and others soon followed). Ultimate solution: Guild based teams

#3 --- No level restriction on PvP. Same as Sullon Zek and Classic WoW. If you are red, you are dead. The only "Safe zones" should be the starting zones. I like the idea of having a level restriction, so instead, flagging any OOR healers/buffers for PvP. It could work without level restriction, but now you have new players being griefed off the server

#4 --- Player Spell Resistance totally rebalanced. PvP doesn't work well when 95% of spells are resisted. This gives an extreme advantage to players with resist-passing spells, and certain melee classes. Yes, I like it but youll now have the issue of Melee's getting owned by casters (like on live). I think you are swinging the pendulum too far in favor of casters with this. Casters owned on live (unless melee's had ultra high end gear/resists)

#5 --- Time to kill needs to be decreased. PvP needs to be intense and fast paced, not "swing at each other for 18 minutes until someone drops to 10% and then runs to a zoneline". Agree

#6 --- completely break the idea of zone logging. You should not be able to escape pvp by hitting a zoneline and logging off. This is idiotic and should have been addressed 20 years ago. Agree

#7 ---- No GM intervention. Settle EVERYTHING with PvP. Everything goes. Training, mob stealing, etc. Disagree, intentional training was a hallmark of Sullon Zek but in my opinion it devolved into a grief fest. Play nice policy still needs to be enforced in certain situations IMO. How this is enforced can be a point of debate

#8 --- No item or coin loot. Losing stuff discourages people from engaging, more than it encourages people to hunt others. There is a psychological effect that explains this, but basically "Losing hurts twice as bad as winning feels good." You want the PvP to be fast, fun, with little negative impact other than a corpse run.Coin loot was fair, item loot was not (naked casters anyone?)

#9 --- Disable every element of /who , even for your own faction. (Will be completely abused, just like it is on Red) Even /anon doesn't help, because people can infer from your online numbers or your history where you are and what you might be doing. Get rid of it for any PvP server.Disagree strongly, you need to be able to see who is in zone - Anonymous works. I see no way how people can infer from your online numbers because /who is limited to like 40 people or whatever

[Dulu]

Originally Posted by walfreyydo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like your ideas but see some major flaws:

Copy/Posting this from a thread of mine from years ago. This addresses the "Don't have X class" argument. 3 factions, and each faction would get 1 unique class. There would be good necromancers, evil druids, etc. It works with the lore.

Dulu's Team 1999 Server Ruleset:


3 Factions, similar to good/neutral/evil - but given different lore-oriented names. No one considers themself "evil". Even the most generic fantasy villians think what they are doing is for some greater purpose. Your faction is decided by your deity, with the exception of Paladins/Rangers/Shadow Knights. (These classes are tied to one of the factions)


"Good Faction" (Primarily High Elves, Wood Elves, Barbarians, Good Erudites, 1/3rd of Humans, 1/3rd of Half Elves.. All Paladins) Players of this faction will have Green names displayed at all times. Human Necromancers would have the option to worship Rodcet Nife, the prime healer, allowing them to play on the good faction. "They study the art of necromancy for a good cause!"

Mithaniel Marr
Erollisi Marr
Rodcet Nife
Tunare
Quellios



"Neutral Faction" (Mainly Dwarves, Gnomes, Halflings, 1/3rd of humans, 1/3rd of half elves, Barbarian Shamans who select The Tribunal as their deity.. All Rangers) Players of this faction will have blue names displayed at all times. Dwarves who select Paladin will start in the city of Felwithe, and be on the good faction. Gnomes who select Shadow Knight will start in the city of Freeport, and be on the "evil faction".

Brell Serelis
Bristlebane
Karana
Solusek Ro
Tribunal
Prexus
Nameless
Veeshan


"Evil Faction" (Mainly Dark Elves, Trolls, Ogres, Iksar, Evil Erudites (Paineeel), 1/3rd of Humans and Half Elves, some Barbarians, some Gnomes.. All Shadowknights) Players of this faction will have orange names at all times. Note: Human and Half-Elf Druids will be allowed to worship Terris-Thule or Rallos Zek, as an option.. allowing them to play on the 'Evil' faction.


Bertox
Cazic-Thule
Innoruuk
Rallos Zek
Terris Thule







Each faction, would get one faction unique class. Rangers for Neutrals, Paladins for Good, and Shadow Knights for Evil. All other classes would be playable by every faction. This includes Necromancers. The three classes I've chosen are powerful, yet I feel are not essential to any sort of encounter.


Starting cities would be only loosely racially tied. Barbarians will tend to start in Halas, but if they have chosen Evil (A barbarian Warrior decides to worship Rallos Zek), they will start in an evil city. Oggok for example would work perfectly.

Humans and Half Elves, it gets a little trickier. I think making Freeport the 'Evil' Human city, Qeynos the 'Neutral' city, and Kelethin the starting point for good humans and half elves makes the most sense.


Only COIN would be lootable. No XP loss. No item loot.


Language barriers will be enforced. There will be no common tongue between the factions.

No buffs or heals of any kind will go across factions.

No trading across factions.

Raid zones MUST be FFA PvP.

/who must be disabled.


It will be impossible for 'Good' players to raise faction in 'Evil' or 'Neutral' cities, and vice versa. This is to prevent possible griefing near cities, and to encourage the realm wars.



Some sort of technology to stop players from 'Plugging' would be ideal. 'Plugging' = running and zoning, and disconnecting while zoning, resulting in your character disappearing until you log back on, possibly hours or days later.

[FungusTrooper]

Originally Posted by Dulu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Copy/Posting this from a thread of mine from years ago. This addresses the "Don't have X class" argument. 3 factions, and each faction would get 1 unique class. There would be good necromancers, evil druids, etc. It works with the lore.

I hate PVP but I admit, even I'd be inspired to try this. This is probably as close to "lots of people actually roleplaying" that I'll ever find in an MMO.