Was total BiS a thing during live?

[kaizersoze]

On live they weren't time locked for 10+ years at velious. So no, nobody was full BIS. Especially when Luclin came out and new BIS was around.

[Atmas]

People did not have full BiS on live. Expansions came out about every year and people did not have all the knowledge that people had here. People didn't have BiS Kunark when Velious came out and they certainly weren't killing bosses so early on. AoW and Tunare were killed just a handful of times before Luclin.

[Nuggie]

Originally Posted by Atmas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

people did not have all the knowledge that people had here. .

I did not know how bad I was at EQ until I played on P99 a few years... it was quite an eye opening experience. Ate quite a slice of humble pie when I started raiding here.

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Nuggie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did not know how bad I was at EQ until I played on P99 a few years... it was quite an eye opening experience. Ate quite a slice of humble pie when I started raiding here.

*shrug*, being "good" at EQ / P99 is simply a matter of time you spend playing. There are no problems to solve in this game and no skill really involved (unless you factor in PvP).

The less time you spend IRL with your friends, family, or studying / working / traveling, the better you can be at EQ.

Don't know if there ever was any humble pie to be had.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

*shrug*, being "good" at EQ / P99 is simply a matter of time you spend playing. There are no problems to solve in this game and no skill really involved (unless you factor in PvP).

The less time you spend IRL with your friends, family, or studying / working / traveling, the better you can be at EQ.

Don't know if there ever was any humble pie to be had.

This stigma about admitting that a video game requires skill to be good at is silly. The ability to perform given actions within a video game is patently a skill:

skill
/skil/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the ability to do something well; expertise.

You even spell out how to improve at eq, which is the same way you improve at literally anything, but claim eq takes no skill.

Why are some long time players awful if all it takes is time investment? Why are some new players very effective if they haven't put the time in? Your claim is clearly false.

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This stigma about admitting that a video game requires skill to be good at is silly. The ability to perform given actions within a video game is patently a skill:

skill
/skil/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the ability to do something well; expertise.

You even spell out how to improve at eq, which is the same way you improve at literally anything, but claim eq takes no skill.

Why are some long time players awful if all it takes is time investment? Why are some new players very effective if they haven't put the time in? Your claim is clearly false.

I don't know what you mean by being good or bad at EQ. How do you decide if someone is good? By the gear they have? Getting great gear is simply a matter of joining one of the top guilds and attending as many raids as possible, while performing some very basic tasks such as pressing autoattack, complete healing, or maybe a couple buff buttons for 97% of the people.

Chess takes skill. Boxing takes skill. Painting takes skill. EQ takes knowledge of the basic mechanics and inordinate amounts of time invested.

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know what you mean by being good or bad at EQ. How do you decide if someone is good?

People who got their characters from Ebay were typically bad, didn't know how to play their class, didn't know about their spells, where to be, what to do or how to do it. I suppose that could be filed under your comment about knowing game mechanics.

We also have 20 years of gaming knowledge and games being even more mainstream than back then. Top entertainment currently iirc. Social media and things like youtube to making understanding things easier beforehand rather than jumping in and being a total idiot.

Which computer games (if any) require skill?

If EQ is the McDonalds of computer gaming then which games are to be considered equal to a Law degree or something like that?

<---- played with arrow keys and would use mouse hand to spacebar jump.

Eq may very well be a game that requires no skill, it would be different if applied knowledge of the Katana were required or some form of Ninjitsu.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know what you mean by being good or bad at EQ. How do you decide if someone is good? By the gear they have? Getting great gear is simply a matter of joining one of the top guilds and attending as many raids as possible, while performing some very basic tasks such as pressing autoattack, complete healing, or maybe a couple buff buttons for 97% of the people.

Chess takes skill. Boxing takes skill. Painting takes skill. EQ takes knowledge of the basic mechanics and inordinate amounts of time invested.

Your own reasoning works again you, you just don't see it. Being good at chess takes skill. Owning a chess trophy does not. Winning boxing matches against skilled opponents takes skill. Owning a belt does not. Painting a masterpiece takes skill. Owning a masterpiece does not.

Playing EQ well takes skill. Owning gear does not.


And, of course, how much skill you demonstrate can vary. Nobody claims throwing out a few raid buffs or autoattacking while facing the right direction is especially skillful. But you're disingenuous or an idiot if you don't see there's skill to many eq activities.

Being a puller who balances his rate to provide fun and exp and loot chances for his group without overwhelming them or boring them. Extra credit if you can do that without stepping on the toes of the people next door or losing nameds to a lame solo chanter sniper.

Breaking fear solo as a druid. Soloing protector as a shaman. Crawling through named velks dogs as a chanter. Generally tackling content with small numbers. Leveling with a few pals in the bottom of najena or dalnir instead of in Oasis or FM. Being a good bard. Etc.

You also ignore that there is a "puzzle solving" going on in the game still. Just because someone else has figured something out doesn't mean everyone instantly has. Over time, p99 has slowly and steadily been tweaked. Someone using a 50 necro to charm in vanilla had it all figured out, but that isnt how it works anymore. People didn't change their methods because "it's all been solved, there's nothing new, we all know everything" or whatever. Etc.


I am anxiously awaiting more non sequiturs and straw men from you [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Neach]

[QUOTE=Izmael;2933507]I don't know what you mean by being good or bad at EQ. How do you decide if someone is good? By the gear they have?/QUOTE]


by performing class specific tasks more efficiently than others? It would seem fairly obvious how you could define certain people who play everquest as "skilled".

[Keza]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This stigma about admitting that a video game requires skill to be good at is silly. The ability to perform given actions within a video game is patently a skill:

skill
/skil/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the ability to do something well; expertise.

You even spell out how to improve at eq, which is the same way you improve at literally anything, but claim eq takes no skill.

Why are some long time players awful if all it takes is time investment? Why are some new players very effective if they haven't put the time in? Your claim is clearly false.

Saying EQ requires skill nowdays is only correct in the most technical definitions. Anyone who genuinely finds EQ mentally taxing is probably out of their mind or very new to games. I see quite a few people on the forum/game bragging about being high all the time. If you need an explanation for why some people are bad at the game despite time played look no further than the obvious, not to mention alcohol or mental/physical limitations. There's a few super-casuals who never get good at anything they do because their concept of fun is different from the norm, just like your concept of skill is different from the norm.

His explanation of how to get better wasn't meant as instruction, clearly. It was implying that anyone 'good' at EQ is only 'good' at it because dumping a thousand hours into a simple game is the only way to get full BiS, not that you poured hours into improving at the game like you would CS/SC/R6/RL/whatever. The things you cite as skill are evident of your skewed outlook. I'd define leveling in certain zones and knowing how to do certain things as game knowledge more than skill. That's exaggerating the content of the game drastically to say remembering timers or knowing what mobs spawn where is skill.

All that said games do take skill and EQ was much more difficult way back when we were all morons, but how long ago was it that the average person was illiterate? That doesn't make reading a difficult skill. Everything is relative to average intelligence. Playing EQ right now is incredibly simple and not something to be proud about, not that anyone should feel ashamed at playing something they enjoy either. Unless it's Monster Girl Island.

On-topic: Not really. Only leaders/officers/MTs of top-tier guilds would have even had a chance to get full BiS. It's taking you so long because the only thing keeping a lot of raiders playing is a combination of gearing up alts and the inability to let go of their pixels and be free.