Thread about why You Hate Luclin

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In defense of Nexus, they did needed some FREE way of getting between Luclin and Norath. Otherwise why you not paying to use ship from Freeport to BB?
Also with lev 30 req, Vah Shir would be forced to stay on Luclin for 30 levels - imagine not being able to go from Freeport to BB till lev 30.
After all Luclin is just another continent.

It shouldnt' have been on the moon then. Having to change fundamentals like that in order to keep new player travel.

"Citizens of Norrath, the tremors felt were from the plane of earth! It seems some hearty adventures have ventured too far into The Hole, angered over the death of Master Yael a new landmass has appeared at Kerra Isle!"

Cat races are now available!

Now the Qeynos boat makes a stop there.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by Mblake81 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It shouldnt' have been on the moon then. Having to change fundamentals like that in order to keep new player travel.

"Citizens of Norrath, the tremors felt were from the plane of earth! It seems some hearty adventures have ventured too far into The Hole, angered over the death of Master Yael a new landmass has appeared at Kerra Isle!"

Cat races are now available!

Now the Qeynos boat makes a stop there.

That much I agree with. When they choose the MOON as next "continent" they had to make things that be would logical for "going to the moon". I guess at that point Brad and the team decided that - "We already have too many continents. new continents are boring, lets do something totally new!" The next time a significant new land mass would be added to the old world would be with GoD expansion.

So going back to that place and time, and NOT choosing the moon, completely changes how many things would evolved.
However I think that something similar to Nexus, would still appear - because world was growing very large by that point and Spire system would bring closer together remote parts of the world.
But at very least we would do away with the "alien" theme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I would do full list of most important things Luclin did wrong it would be:

1. Choosing the Moon as next environment over another continent, underworld or say alternative realm. Hence forcing "alien" theme on otherwise fantasy world.

2. Expansion was rushed out prematurely. It felt that only about 1/4 of the zones were carefully design with heart and mind and purpose, where most of the rest were thrown together in a hurry. (Mons Letalis, Maiden Eye, Umbral Plains, Dawnshroud Picks are complete waste of space, and The Grey, Mara Seru, Twilight Sea, Scarlet Desert are barely better). Few and poorly implemented quests fall in to this category as well. yes there were a handful or involved quests, but mostly it was barren.

3. AA system was not a good design. Instead of giving CUSTOMIZATION of a character, it became MANDATORY PROGRESSION. Future high end content difficulty was tuned with idea in mind that players max out (or nearly max out) all their class AAs, and by the time of GoD it became totally INSANE. Max geared tanks could not tank raid boss unless they also had 2,000+ AAs.
IMHO a better AA system should have been something closer to WoW Talents, where you can only chose limited number of AA to obtain, but not all. But also without creating WoW's separate spec structure.

4. The Bazaar. I am one of those people who did EC tunnel. I am also one of those people who started to hate EC tunnel because it took too much of my time time. So automating sales wasn't the bad thing in my opinion. Creating centralize HUB was. What I would have done is create separate bazaar in EACH major city. Or at least 1 per continent, and let PLAYERS decide which one would become the central hub.

So these are my 4 most important factors.

Nexus thing would have happened one way or another because original game didn't had a well thought out long distance transportation system. And I am completely against the idea that druid and wizard should be able to earn ton of cash by doing something other classes can't. (Yes my main was a Druid and I was RICH AS HELL where my friends who played SK, Necro and Enchanter were poor as hell).
I mean there can be teleporters, but group teleport should cost a reagent that would be decently expensive that realistically only guilds going to a raid would spent money on to transport people quickly.

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4. The Bazaar. I am one of those people who did EC tunnel. I am also one of those people who started to hate EC tunnel because it took too much of my time time. So automating sales wasn't the bad thing in my opinion. Creating centralize HUB was. What I would have done is create separate bazaar in EACH major city. Or at least 1 per continent, and let PLAYERS decide which one would become the central hub.

A zone over by Shady Swashbucker into "Smugglers Den" complete with a bandit banker and places to set up sales.

Note: Doing this removes players from the tunnel area from buffing newbs, just saying.

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nexus thing would have happened one way or another because original game didn't had a well thought out long distance transportation system. And I am completely against the idea that druid and wizard should be able to earn ton of cash by doing something other classes can't. (Yes my main was a Druid and I was RICH AS HELL where my friends who played SK, Necro and Enchanter were poor as hell).
I mean there can be teleporters, but group teleport should cost a reagent that would be decently expensive that realistically only guilds going to a raid would spent money on to transport people quickly.

More reason to have a wiz/dru alt. I can't agree with teleporters in any form.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by Mblake81 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More reason to have a wiz/dru alt. I can't agree with teleporters in any form.

By teleporters I meant classes that can teleport =) Its a huge personalized cash-making unfair advantage. Its shouldn't be in game at all [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[kaluppo]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nexus thing would have happened one way or another because original game didn't had a well thought out long distance transportation system. And I am completely against the idea that druid and wizard should be able to earn ton of cash by doing something other classes can't. (Yes my main was a Druid and I was RICH AS HELL where my friends who played SK, Necro and Enchanter were poor as hell).

I have to diasgree. Druids especially need teleport spells just to be a desirable class to play. Proof of this was how Sony tried to "fix" the Druid class with their 75% complete heal spell after they were completely broken because they made porting easy access to everyone. There are way too many clerics and shamans around for a Druid to be viable just because of superior healing. Wizards wouldn't be broken as much for end game raiding desirability but it would discourage a lot of people from wanting to level one to 55+.

And if making PP via class skills was to become a crime then where does it end? Clerics should not get a resurrection spell or epics because they can make lots of PP rezzing for donations? Chanters should not get Clarity because they can make lots of PP by selling crack for donations?

I think they did it right by giving a couple of classes port spells to compliment the boats as a means of travel between continents. Now if you want to say boat travel should be faster or boats should charge a small fee to be used then I could see an argument for that.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by kaluppo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have to diasgree. Druids especially need teleport spells just to be a desirable class to play. Proof of this was how Sony tried to "fix" the Druid class with their 75% complete heal spell after they were completely broken because they made porting easy access to everyone. There are way too many clerics and shamans around for a Druid to be viable just because of superior healing. Wizards wouldn't be broken as much for end game raiding desirability but it would discourage a lot of people from wanting to level one to 55+.

And if making PP via class skills was to become a crime then where does it end? Clerics should not get a resurrection spell or epics because they can make lots of PP rezzing for donations? Chanters should not get Clarity because they can make lots of PP by selling crack for donations?

I think they did it right by giving a couple of classes port spells to compliment the boats as a means of travel between continents. Now if you want to say boat travel should be faster or boats should charge a small fee to be used then I could see an argument for that.

And that is INHERITED problem with class design and balance. Druid NEEDED ports so it can be useful in a group? Useless in combat but cash raking out of combat? That's just plain stupid. Druid were useless as healer because Brad made Cleric UNGODLY healers. Thankfully he saw his errors and that's why in EQ2 all 3 priests were balanced to be equally good healers but via doing different things.

And yes Cleric, Chanter, Druid casting spells for plat is poor class balance and bad game design. Yes classes should have buffs. But they should not be caste-able outside of group, and specially on low lev players because that's cheating. You NOT suppose to be running around with +400hp buff at lev 5.
I liked how buffs worked in EQ2 - as an aura. A caster has 5 buff slots, and you chose very careful which buffs you want going. Anyone who join the group - gets the buff benefit. No casting 20+ buffs on a lev 1 noob for PL, no selling them for plat.

Cleric epic is a horrendous game design. Item that doesn't go obsolete after 20 expansions is Terribad game design.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by kaluppo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have to diasgree. Druids especially need teleport spells just to be a desirable class to play. Proof of this was how Sony tried to "fix" the Druid class with their 75% complete heal spell after they were completely broken because they made porting easy access to everyone.

I agree with you, but I think you are coming from the problem from the wrong viewpoint: taxi should not be the best ability of any class. TAKP actually has a very nice balance between the healers:

• Clerics: best and most efficient heal, biggest HP buffs, weak debuffs, no mana regen
• Shamans: worst and least efficient heals, worst HP buffs, best debuffs & mana regen
• Druids: in between on all fronts

I could definitely get behind a fee for using the Wizard spires. Every 20-30 minutes a Wizard appears at the portal and for the next 5 minutes you can give him 20 platinum to be translocated to the spire of your choice.

Anyway, the problem with EQ was that by the time they fixed the imbalances in one expansion they had created new ones in the next one, and thus they never really figured it out.

Also, once Nilbog & co are done replicating classic EQ I think it might be interesting to try perfecting it. I think late velious balance is actually pretty good, but it could definitely use a few tweaks.