TAKP Luclin release date announced

[fadetree]

Did you read my longer, earlier post on the subject?
You are ignoring all the other 'basic facts' and coming to an unsupported conclusion. I said you *might* be right, but you seemed like you were claiming it was obvious you were, and that's not true.

[Wonkie]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He's not being immature, he's just arguing back. It's legit. I don't agree with him, but he's not doing anything out of hand I don't think.

i know. this is just part of his training!

[Irulan]

In defense of boxing, servers didn't have a 50 pop back then either. Also people didn't know what they were doing at all, people randomly roamed the Karanas unlocking their corpses for bards to loot precious bronze armor and fine steel from via /consent. Saying, re-creating a classic EQ experience is hard too impossible at best with a low population. But that's all the rest I have to say.

God Bless Haynar, and u guys are great over at TAKP but I still think automation is inevitably unavoidable and a huge turn off to delicate shit flowers such as myself. You shouldn't be selling your server to ppl like me. U should be selling it to the P99 raidscene.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did you read my longer, earlier post on the subject?
You are ignoring all the other 'basic facts' and coming to an unsupported conclusion.

Not sure which one specifically you're referring to, and it's kind of lame to be like "go back through five pages of stuff and figure out exactly which sentence I want you to re-read"; just use the quote function [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I said you *might* be right, but you seemed like you were claiming it was obvious you were, and that's not true.

Oh, well I definitely have a bad habit of hyperbalizing, using metaphors when I should use similes, and things like that, so it's very possible I overstated my position and you are in fact correct (my opinion was subjective not objective).

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Irulan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In defense of boxing, servers didn't have a 50 pop back then either. But that's all I have to say.

This is true, and emulated servers do have a "chicken and egg" problem with population when they first start. Obviously P99 overcame that, but I don't mean to make it sound like it's easy to get a healthy population going without allowing boxing, because I'm sure it's not.

[fadetree]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, it's an interesting point. Part of the issue I think is that there's been kind of a sea of emulators out there. I never seriously played any of them besides P99 and TAKP, but from what I gather they were all pretty heavily modified and/or were from an era after PoP when many people, myself included, stopped liking the easymode direction that EQ had gone.
So, there was a lot of built up desire to experience EQ as it actually was during the era when most of us thought it was at it's greatest. I actually tried Dalaya and like 1 other one for a brief time, and they were unrecognizable as EQ beyond the superficial setting, and I did not enjoy them.
So when P99 started up it's goal matched a whole lot of people's desires, and its brilliant execution and attention to detail really made a name for itself. People could log on and really feel like they just logged into live in 1999. I personally think that it was not so much the 'no boxing!' that made P99 so popular (although it helped) as just that it was done extremely well and appeared at the right time. So a population built up, and developed it's own cultural views on many things, including boxing.
I think that if P99 had started with limited boxing at that same time, it would not have prevented the player base growth in any significant way. That's just an opinion. But now there's a really strong cultural bias against boxing on P99, and that's fine. I like P99 a lot. But I also think there's a lot of people who liked PoP a lot, and who liked boxing as a fallback to standing around LFG on a short play time frame. A lot of us are much older now and don't have hours and hours to play.
I guess the 'bot armies' thing was a problem in live, although I never noticed it much, but that was supported with ShowEQ, external macros, and no limit to the number of boxes. If Live discouraged boxing, it was in word only, I never saw anyone I knew get in trouble for boxing.
So I guess to look at the emu landscape and say 'wow, boxing kills servers' based on the 1 example of P99 is not a completely convincing argument. P99 has many other things going for it, including the time at which it got started, era accuracy, and excellent devs and regulation, which are also missing from a lot of the other emus both past and present. You could as well say "wow, not sticking to accuracy and not running a tight ship kills servers'. Also keep in mind there's a limited number of people who are even interested in EQ compared to the general population, and P99 has a large part of them already invested in it.
I think that once TAKP drops luclin and starts working on PoP, the population will slowly ramp up, especially as more people start to confirm the things about TAKP that attracted and keep me playing there.

Okie dokie.

[Linkamus]

I don't think Loramin is trying to pick on TAKP so much as just venting his frustration concerning the fact that other than p99 there aren't really any strict no boxing emus. Which I can empathize with. As someone who now loves boxing, I have my pick of the litter (TAKP being the best choice!). However if there was only one emu with boxing allowed, I can see how not having many options would suck.

[fadetree]

Yeah, I didn't think he was picking on TAKP either, just pushing his hypothesis and as you said, probably irritated about the lack of other emus that have the same restriction.

[loramin]

You are both correct, and again I'm not trying to pick on TAKP or anyone else, except to be like "you guys could be so much cooler and more successful ... why don't you want to be cooler and more successful!?!" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okie dokie.

Originally Posted by fadetree

I actually tried Dalaya and like 1 other one for a brief time, and they were unrecognizable as EQ beyond the superficial setting, and I did not enjoy them.

Totally; like I said people want to play the EQ they remember.

Originally Posted by fadetree

I personally think that it was not so much the 'no boxing!' that made P99 so popular (although it helped) as just that it was done extremely well and appeared at the right time.

I agree there's no way to suss out exactly what percentage of P99's success came from what. But I do think it's very difficult to argue with this statement: "P99's success came primarily from the fact that it did an excellent job of reminding people of live" ... and a key piece (who knows what percentage) of that was actually having (like live EQ) other players playing the game with you, instead of with themselves and their two alts.

Originally Posted by fadetree

I also think there's a lot of people who liked PoP a lot

I do too, and so do many others ... which makes it all the more incredible that even though just about every other server offers PoP, it's the server that doesn't which has 10x the population.

Surely part of that is the incredible customer service (and staff in general), but I think you're really missing something if you ignore that P99 has actual people playing with others, and other servers have boxers.

Originally Posted by fadetree

You could as well say "wow, not sticking to accuracy and not running a tight ship kills servers'.

Amen, and I'm sure it does. There's more than one way to fail a server [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by fadetree

I think that once TAKP drops luclin and starts working on PoP, the population will slowly ramp up

And this is where we simply disagree, and we'll have to wait for time to prove who's right. If you're right and empty-feeling servers aren't the problem, TAKP will take off. If I'm right, and the most important thing to people is playing on a server that resembles live (and that means boxing at levels of <10%) then it won't matter what expansions TAKP adds, because it won't solve the fundamental problem that their server isn't like the ones everyone remembers.

[Irulan]

p99 was an early adopter and one of the earlier boxes on the scene, i remember sitting around in quake3 deathmatches and ppl were emailing me about p99 coming online

it got free population

it evolved into something nice, but if takp and p99 rolled at the same time, takp would have stomped p99 especially if both had no boxing rules.

but takp wouldn't exist without ppl from p99 probably either.

u can't have a chicken without an egg