Luclin was classic, PoP was not.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Toodles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Um what? Where is he going to get all the customized .xml files and sub-data? You think Nilbog will just casually hand that out to anyone?

You can start the emulated server..that's the easy part, and you could scrape together some default database files..that's where it ends.

Of course Nilbog doesn't share the P99 source or database, but you don't need either to run an emulator server.

Do you think P2002 or any of the other major EQ emulators magically stole everything from P99? Of course not: they used the stock EQ Emulator data, which is certainly good enough to get started, and then whoever is running the server tweaked it from there. Any non-classic server would have to do that, no matter what, even if they could steal everything from P99, because you can't steal Luclin/PoP data from P99.

Honestly you could take the stock EQ Emulator data, not change a single thing, and still make a server tons of people would play on. P99 didn't achieve success because of their ultra-classic tweaks; in fact, some might argue the server succeeded in spite of them. Building a successful server is about building a community, and that requires a lot of things like quality (and uncorrupt) GMs which have nothing to do with the technical aspect.

If someone wants to start a successful PoP (or any era) server their biggest challenge is going to be the non-technical community building ... not making sure every mob is in exactly the same place it was back in '99.

[Foxplay]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Of course Nilbog doesn't share the P99 source or database, but you don't need either to run an emulator server.

Do you think P2002 or any of the other major EQ emulators magically stole everything from P99? Of course not: they used the stock EQ Emulator data, which is certainly good enough to get started, and then whoever is running the server tweaked it from there. Any non-classic server would have to do that, no matter what, even if they could steal everything from P99, because you can't steal Luclin/PoP data from P99.

Honestly you could take the stock EQ Emulator data, not change a single thing, and still make a server tons of people would play on. P99 didn't achieve success because of their ultra-classic tweaks; in fact, some might argue the server succeeded in spite of them. Building a successful server is about building a community, and that requires a lot of things like quality (and uncorrupt) GMs which have nothing to do with the technical aspect.

If someone wants to start a successful PoP (or any era) server that's their biggest challenge, not making sure every mob is in exactly the same place it was back in '99.

Incorrect it takes hotpockets and beer

[Vormotus]

Luclin was good in some aspects, but extremely bad in others, for instance, how it made the world smaller, which was made even worse later by instant teleporting through POK.

Over and over I have seen this trend in other MMO games ... like EVE, the moment the universe/world/sandbox/planet in a game becomes super easy to travel to and within it , the game begins the slow ride into the nothingness that is streamlining.

Though I would love to play a Beastlord again (miss my scaly wolf) ... hmm no.

I dont care if the server here is full of people bored at the endgame, I like knowing that Velious is endgame and the HORROR that was AA farming will never happen here again.

Too much horror and nightmares [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Kaedain]

the nexus portal thing is way overblown, people routinely pay for ports from EC to Lavastorm etc.. hard to believe a lot of people are going to wait the 10-15minutes it takes for the nexus ? ports would be just fine

[fadetree]

Some of us liked luclin AA. It's what finally gave a few classes some badly needed upgrades. Rangers, for instance, who were nerfed in beta for being 'too powerful'. PoP took it a little too far, but it was still OK. The devs then began to see it as a cheap way to add functionality into the game without doing any real class analysis or expansion design AND yes, to lock us into grinding.

It depends on why you play...for me, I do not play to 'get to max level'. I happen to be a dopamine addict, so I count on continuous small doses when I complete some task or level in the elf sim. To me, luclin AA was a great addition.

[kotton05]

luclin was awesome lots of bads in here dont like it tho

[Vormotus]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't even get the PoK books hate. You can travel to home cities but still need rides to places like Cobalt Scar, EJ, Dreadlands, Karanas, Surefall, etc.

I know and I understand your point, but I think it boils down to some of the aspects of the mechanics that go beyond sheer mechanics and utility see?

Hope I can make myself clear [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is not hate, because that is too strong an emotion, for me anyway. What I mean is something a bit deeper.

See, not everybody is equal, much less when gaming, and even more so within a game as complex and so loaded with emotional baggage (for some, myself included) as Everquest.

I do not hate, nor hated the expansions per se, (again , hate is too strong a word for me) but I saw sharply the way social mechanics suddenly went off the drain when the game began to grow and grow and grow and the social norm of the day went bust.

I am no expert, and I could be totally off the hook here, but what I remember vividly from those days was how expectations (and I include here your very solid viewpoint on mechanics and self-reliance and not pigeonholing classes into these crude niches you describe, which is a good point) suddenly changed in the social sphere of the game.

Back then I was in Povar, I raided little, never been my main interest here, but mostly exploring and enjoying the virtual landscape and the fun social interactions, this to tell you that my focus on gaming was to walk around, be a bit social and then stroll randomly as I chatted here or there with this or that person, persons I knew were real (in so far as a virtual representation of them could be "real") and to this day, and here I candidly confess it, have never had friends like those I got in EQ, a feat beyond my means in any other mmo I have been through the ages.

I spent about two years in the Test Server when I grew disillusioned with the way EQ was going and remained there due to the small community, despite Test having even more mechanic changes and earlier access to xpacs, community was super tight, I even ended up on the Botsquad with Sinbot and his dreaded drama ladden Raid Alliance haha, but I loved the small sense of community.

This guy was bad, this one was fun, this is a scammer, this other is weird, etc, etc.

Now I am digressing, back to my point,

Having explained this, again, I saw how on Live the shift from Velious to Luclin changed, specially due to the Bazaar and the Nexus Spires began to shrink distances, both physical and mental by giving utility, but for me at least, began to widen the gap between players.

It is a purely social construct for me, that goes beyond mechanics and roles, and here I hope I explain myself, english is not my first language haha.

So yes, that is what happened in my experience, and have seen it over the years in many other mmos, last one being Eve Online and how the game changed mimicking closely my prior experience in EQ.

It seems, that when everything is constrained, community is small and you get to know people, there is a thriving social aspect that I totally love, not because I am super social, honestly I am a bit of a loner, nothing special there, but I thoroughly enjoy seeing "real" people around, killing this or that, leveling, joking, being human in virtuality, enjoying, despite wildly different backgrounds, sticking pixels, killing them and feeling great or good or focused about it. Kinda weird but you know what I mean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To be honest again with everyone, mmos have been the only constant things in my ultra chaotic life, so there is that.

Certain expansions just injected so much chaos , new social norms and hierarchy structures that ended up shattering what little stability I enjoyed in these games at first.

Though growth is inevitable, fixed settings, like I am now discovering P99 is, are just marvels to me[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, sorry for the long post, if you read all of this I thank you, if you skipped here to the end, thanks too haha.

Love to you man and love to the game! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

hugs!

[Jhaerik]

Well considering I play on p2002 now.. and we have PoK books.. I still find myself constantly logging my wizzy to port/TL....

PoK books don't do you much good when you are farming Juggies with a melee in group on a server without welfare OTH. :P

[xCry0x]

I didn't play enough luclin - but for me, the bazaar killed a huge part of the game.

I never was big into trading, but I loved the way it works. Bazaar/AH functionality sucks the human interaction out of the game, which is what "classic" eq is all about imo.

Also, the more expansions you get the more you empty out original content. You add luclin and I doubt you see anyone in any vanilla content anymore - could be wrong.

The classic experience for me is:
- Leveling up via crushbone, oasis, unrest, highpass, lower guk, etc.
- EC trade spam
- Plane of hate/fear gear
- Original epic quests
- Kunark content, mainly karnors/seb and the associated raid content since it doesn't replace the vanilla raid content.

Velious even starts to replace vanilla since you have new (better) armor sets to go after etc.

[Axlrose]

My personal history lesson -

I started playing on Live the day Kunark was released. While I had my moments I played a weekend away, overall those moments were far and few between. Thus I did not get to grind through everything and picked up rag tag groups that were doing areas I have experienced before. So as expansions were released, it was getting harder and harder to find people to adventure in those zones I never visited. These new expansions offered better phat lewt and higher rate of returns in experience versus time. If I wanted to continue playing Live, I had to follow the crowds.

Eventually, I went back to try some of those zones I never got to experience in their day. They were all lifeless - the monsters were ever present, but nobody wanted anything to do with them. Nobody wanted ports since using the books was so much easier. Why grind for faction when bankers and merchants in areas like Plane of Knowledge dealt with anybody and everybody on even terms. And those items I finally obtained in those older zones? Vendor trash compared to what common mobs in the latest expansion were spewing out.

So like my younger self, time is still something I do not have towards gaming more than a bit here and there. But as this server stands right now, eventually I will reach that point where someone might need a port. Or a group needs me in one of those zones I never got to see. Or I might decide to go for another walk and go from Erudin to Ak'Anon (as both good and evil) and see players along the numerous zones adventuring. I understand there are people that have seen and done it all and want something different. But short of the developers here changing their mind on expansions...

To this day, I still remember when Luclin was released, there was one lone seller in the East Commonlands tunnels begging anybody to just look at his items for sale. The day I decided to give this server a go (after contemplating my gaming situation as before to what could be now), the moment I stepped from West Freeport to East Commonlands and saw the ~spam~ of auctions, I felt good.

Just my rambling thoughts on the matter.