Ruining EQ

[Tru]

"Anyone who raids regularly, keyword there, understands that more than 2 members (aka trackers) past the zone line disqualifies that guild from anything that pops during that time. Very old rule that BDA got nailed for by parking their raid force at Juggs for Trak."

Curious how this rule came to be, b/c isn't half the fun of EQ being that there you are, with your group(s) in a zone exp'ing away, and you know a cool target may pop at some time, and there you are when it pops, so yay you go fight. This rule seems to be quite the exact opposite - if you're in a zone when your hoped for mob pops then FU get out. This surprises me mucho.

Is the reason this rule came to be the following: were some guilds perma camping certain targets to the exclusion of others? Turn taking was just not seen to be a noble thing compared to getting the loots for your peeps? Guild membership was seen as "team topteam is best so we get it all"?

If yes, would a time out after guild engage mob (say, a month) be a work around? If xyz guild kills xyz mob then they are done with that mob for abc amount of time.

The effect of this would be similar to a ban without the shade. Perhaps. Probably it has been suggested/tried/examined...has it?

A bit more history for those of us who are interested, new to raiding, wondering why "play nice" is hard to make happen.

I suppose I get that some ppl like to compete, so that being first, getting the best ==== keeping the next guy down. That's how some ppl see competition. ??? Thanks for any and all history and insight relative to that history.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Tru [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A bit more history for those of us who are interested, new to raiding, wondering why "play nice" is hard to make happen.

Greed of players plain and simple.

When you start talking dragon pixels, there are players who's greed show no boundaries. Players early on found ways to cheat other players out of their dragon pixels using exploits or just dirty play.

To try to reel in these players, rules were made.

The same greedy neckbeard players found loopholes and new ways to exploit around the rules, so then more rules are made.

This pattern seems to have continued since p99 raiding came into existence, and so you got what we have now.

Some people blame the staff but in all honesty it's not staff it's 100% player-made problems culminating from greed.

It's sad because it's just fucking pixels.

[branamil]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Greed of players plain and simple.

When you start talking dragon pixels, there are players who's greed show no boundaries. Players early on found ways to cheat other players out of their dragon pixels using exploits or just dirty play.

To try to reel in these players, rules were made.

The same greedy neckbeard players found loopholes and new ways to exploit around the rules, so then more rules are made.

This pattern seems to have continued since p99 raiding came into existence, and so you got what we have now.

Some people blame the staff but in all honesty it's not staff it's 100% player-made problems culminating from greed.

It's sad because it's just fucking pixels.

He was looking for specific examples. If you’re going to post 80 times per day you could at least be insightful.

Personally I think this rule is too draconian. If you are past the zone line when it spawns you should not be able to engage for X number of hours. 1, 4, whatever. In the old days, a 1 hour lock after obtaining FTE was deemed sufficient time to prepare. Why is 1 hour not sufficient to steal a mob from a raid that camped too close? I mean make it 2 or 4 hours. I don’t see how a permanent DQ does anything other discourage dungeon crawling and give any contenders a free loot piñata. If it was designed for Trakanon then it’s outdated, there’s only 1 FTE in sebilis but several or dozens in velious zones

[Heebs13]

Originally Posted by branamil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He was looking for specific examples. If you’re going to post 80 times per day you could at least be insightful.

Personally I think this rule is too draconian. If you are past the zone line when it spawns you should not be able to engage for X number of hours. 1, 4, whatever. In the old days, a 1 hour lock after obtaining FTE was deemed sufficient time to prepare. Why is 1 hour not sufficient to steal a mob from a raid that camped too close? I mean make it 2 or 4 hours. I don’t see how a permanent DQ does anything other discourage dungeon crawling and give any contenders a free loot piñata. If it was designed for Trakanon then it’s outdated, there’s only 1 FTE in sebilis but several or dozens in velious zones

Yep, it sucks. Triplets are all sitting up last I heard and no one wants to try them for fear of missing out on the rest of ToV in the event of a quake.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by branamil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He was looking for specific examples. If you’re going to post 80 times per day you could at least be insightful.

Personally I think this rule is too draconian. If you are past the zone line when it spawns you should not be able to engage for X number of hours. 1, 4, whatever. In the old days, a 1 hour lock after obtaining FTE was deemed sufficient time to prepare. Why is 1 hour not sufficient to steal a mob from a raid that camped too close? I mean make it 2 or 4 hours. I don’t see how a permanent DQ does anything other discourage dungeon crawling and give any contenders a free loot piñata. If it was designed for Trakanon then it’s outdated, there’s only 1 FTE in sebilis but several or dozens in velious zones

I quoted part of what he wrote (did you not bother reading that?) and clearly I addressed why the play nice policy doesn't work here.

Comprehension lacking I guess? He didn't specifically ask only for an example. Nice (non)witty insult though, nerd. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Mendo]

The tracker rule made perfect sense in Kunark where dragons can be instabdead within seconds of spawning.

[Chanto]

Versager's Epic CT kite as mentioned...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwc9qgaCxLs

@ 4:20 can see train is assisted on Versager kiteing with Low HP agro
@ 4:40 Versager claims he is not kittens or so, and he knows the game! ( Ouch sorry kittens )
@ 5:00 Versager admits to kiteing as he continues to kite!

This went on for about another 10 minutes after this fraps ends

Versager is an officer of europa the only kinda guild that would openly kite raid mobs and brag about it as they do it! You wouldn't pull moves like this without some type of petition ward activated...

Wonder what happen to aikons if he pulled this move?

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Skew]

Originally Posted by Chanto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Versager's Epic CT kite as mentioned...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwc9qgaCxLs

@ 4:20 can see train is assisted on Versager kiteing with Low HP agro
@ 4:40 Versager claims he is not kittens or so, and he knows the game! ( Ouch sorry kittens )
@ 5:00 Versager admits to kiteing as he continues to kite!

This went on for about another 10 minutes after this fraps ends

Versager is an officer of europa the only kinda guild that would openly kite raid mobs and brag about it as they do it! You wouldn't pull moves like this without some type of petition ward activated...

Wonder what happen to aikons if he pulled this move?

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol. 20 day guild ban and 30 day player ban if Aikons did that. Shitty human beings eh !?

[raato]

Originally Posted by Chanto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Versager's Epic CT kite as mentioned...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwc9qgaCxLs

@ 4:20 can see train is assisted on Versager kiteing with Low HP agro
@ 4:40 Versager claims he is not kittens or so, and he knows the game! ( Ouch sorry kittens )
@ 5:00 Versager admits to kiteing as he continues to kite!

This went on for about another 10 minutes after this fraps ends

Versager is an officer of europa the only kinda guild that would openly kite raid mobs and brag about it as they do it! You wouldn't pull moves like this without some type of petition ward activated...

Wonder what happen to aikons if he pulled this move?

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Looks like Versager is kiting a train while rest of the raid is recovering from wipe? And Aikons dropping CT in to the kite (FTE at 1:28, no new FTE ever).

Did CSG concede CT after that or did they kill it? Or did he just kite it so CSG could recover from the wipe and leave the zone?

And btw Versager isnt Europa, he is officer of Omni.

[Nexii]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Greed of players plain and simple.

When you start talking dragon pixels, there are players who's greed show no boundaries. Players early on found ways to cheat other players out of their dragon pixels using exploits or just dirty play.

To try to reel in these players, rules were made.

The same greedy neckbeard players found loopholes and new ways to exploit around the rules, so then more rules are made.

This pattern seems to have continued since p99 raiding came into existence, and so you got what we have now.

Some people blame the staff but in all honesty it's not staff it's 100% player-made problems culminating from greed.

It's sad because it's just fucking pixels.

The problem isn't extreme greed. Most of the people across both hardcore and casual guilds are not bad people. The problems come from competition/overpopulation and the scarcity model of EQ.

I do primarily blame the server staff for the mess that P99 raiding is. The raid rules are set by the staff not the players. On the whole they haven't been well thought out or considered if the goal is to have a healthy raid scene with both hardcore and casual guilds getting a take of the pixels. For that matter I can't see how the server rule set is easy or fun for the GMs themselves to administer.

If you actually raided you'd know how inane a lot of them are. Perhaps this is half the issue, the GMs don't raid as they aren't allowed to (conflict of interest). Most of the input is from the 1% neckbeards and the rules are very twisted to cater to the worst kinds of behavior.

The tracker FTE rule would have barely made sense in Kunark let alone Velious. It creates a bunch of toxic side effects for any zone with more than one raid target. There's a huge incentive to pull everything to the zone in to avoid being permanently DQed. This in turn makes guilds train each other often unintentionally. That's not to mention all the inanity regarding being DQed simply for exping in a zone while a boss happened to pop.