Serious discussion about Charisma after Charm Nerf

[guineapig]

I think the consensus is that lowering the importance of charisma (due to it being the last roll when checking for charm break)was a good thing.

However a tashed, malo'd blue con mob average mob should still be able to be charmed for 3-5 minutes without much problems. In fact, you should be able to do it with 130 charisma (maybe even less) instead of 200+.

I have not tested this since the patch but I will.
In theory, with around 130 charisma I should be able to tash and charm a green con mob and have the charm last almost full duration, light blue con mob I should be able to keep for over half duration on average. If I am unable to do either of these things without boosting my charisma to 200 then it's still not working as intended.

I will of course do multiple tests and suggest that other charm capable players do the same thing and compare their results here.

That's the only real way to figure out if the fix/nerf was good or too much.

Make sure you post name of mobs, level range of mobs as well as yourself, your charisma changes, and of course any debuffs you may have used.

[Taej]

Any updates on this from testing/experience?

Does having 200+ CHA effect anything anymore? Or do you just need 130+ as the previous poster mentioned?

My understanding was that there is still an Mob MR vs. Player CHA check to determine charm breaks even with the changes.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by vageta31 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charm was never this powerful in classic.

Charm was sweet up until PoP after they nerfed it because of the chanter soloing in PoV and Halls of Honor.

On combine enchanters would lock down swashbucklers in Timorous deep, Guks in lguk, ilis knights in sebilis, pirates in jaggedpine, or LDCs in solb. You had 3 kinds of enchanters, those that would buff and mez, those that would pull buff and mez, or those that would charm buff mez and maybe pull.

If you rolled around with nothing but scrub chanters than I could see you thinking that way though.

[Fawqueue]

The internet is a funny creature, the original intention of this post got sidetracked REALLY quickly. But I understand that there is strong feelings on both sides of the great charm debate. I will say this in regards to charm and the nerf: what we already know is pretty much true. CHA doesn't affect it GREATLY, but does affect it. If you are really trying to squeeze the most out of the charm durations regularly, then stack CHA to at least 200. I haven't noticed a huge difference after that point (at 217 now). And yes charm was "overpowered" if by that definition you mean it was too reliable. I used to be able to keep a blue/even around for full duration all the time, and yellows/reds long enough to make use most of the time. Now it's still viable to do some crazy things (even post-nerf I've been able to keep red Oggok guards around long enough to make them slaughter each other) but it is more akin to a dice roll than it was previously (which is the intention). It's still very viable, I use charm in dungeons solo and in groups as a great DPS tool and as long as it's blue by a few levels, it's manageable.

Now, as for my original intent with this post. I was just curious if I was the only one who suddenly realized that all the time and money spent acquiring my CHA gear was suddenly pointless. Unlike live, CHA doesn't affect merchant pricing for buying/selling on this server. If so, I'd still be pretty content as it'd save me a ton of money in my Jewelcrafting. At this point INT and STA just seem like the more efficient choice (which I know was mentioned above). And it seems like others agree.

[guineapig]

All I can tell you for certain is that in Plane of Fear for example, we often use charm as an additional means of crowd control. I used to have to change gear around so I had at least 200-203 charisma in order to be able to hold the mobs, is my charisma spell dropped for example the duration of the charm was noticeable immdeiately.

Since the nerf I can still hold mobs in Fear for a couple minutes when I need to, the only difference is that My charisma is usually in the 160's to 180's now. I have not attempted to keep a pet for full duration on raids as we don't need the extra DPS and the risk simply isn't worth it. It's noteworthy to mention that Planes mobs have a pretty high resist I'm generally charming something that is at most 1-2 levels below me.

I haven't tried really going below 130 charisma to test things out yet, sorry. Been concentrating on alts when not raiding.

I'll let you know if I make it to SolB and see how long charm lasts with different levels of charisma...

[Vermatrax]

Charm was never awesome in live until Direcharm AA.

[faenyar]

I used to use charm heavily as a secondary means of CC back in the day. In classic, charm was untrustworthy and you had to stay on your toes constantly when using it (and I had pushed my CHA easily over 200). In fact, I was often told by other enchanters that I was a lunatic for using charm and that all it would do was to get me killed. In return, I sometimes salvaged us from wipes with judicious use of charm and had people asking me constantly how I managed to do it. There was no secret other than keeping on your toes and operating under the assumption that whenever the worst possible moment for charm to break was, that was when it would happen and to make sure you were ready for it.

I agree with the "scrub 'chanters" comment I saw earlier. Most of the time there were two things that I saw that differentiated top tier enchanters from mid tier ones (for me anyway) and that was whether the only CC they had was mez and how well they kept their cool when everything went pear-shaped. Root, fear, charm, mez, stun, blindness, lull, slow, etc are *all* forms of CC and a good enchanter won't limit himself or herself to just mashing mez and handing out crack.

Playing a 'chanter is 99% about remaining cool under pressure because you are almost always in the hot seat. The other 99% of playing a 'chanter is being able to use every crayon in the box instead of just two or three stubby broken off ones. Don't be loathe to bounce in and out of your spellbook swapping out spells constantly in the middle of fights and adjusting your tactics to the situation and the resources at hand.

[guineapig]

Originally Posted by faenyar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Playing a 'chanter is 99% about remaining cool under pressure because you are almost always in the hot seat. The other 99% of playing a 'chanter is being able to use every crayon in the box instead of just two or three stubby broken off ones. Don't be loathe to bounce in and out of your spellbook swapping out spells constantly in the middle of fights and adjusting your tactics to the situation and the resources at hand.

This is the most common cause of me getting aggro on raids. I'm constantly having to sit to swap spells in my spellbook. 8 slots are never enough. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Ermonican]

Not to Necro this thread or anything but I was wondering if any definitive results were found in regards to how Charisma effects charm? Reason I was asking was because I was thinking of making a DE Ench but did not want to gimp myself.

[Aeolwind]

I only remember, classically, one enchanter on Emarr ever using charm consistently, and that was Enki Xanadu. He was psychotic in his zeal however and could manage to keep a charmed FG through most of a raid. However, he died a lot as a result. Up until the first charm change, and then the addition of dire charm you rarely saw enchanters. After that it started to ramp up.

Generally speaking regarding game balance; if you have an awesome power, it in general will & should have an equal drawback.