LoS member posts about raiding in Jan 2002

[Evia]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, I read his post and I think the answer is obvious;
I think the answer to his problem is to release an expansion consisting almost exclusively of planar raid zones (although some areas of these zones can be grouped for xp).

There should be a tiered key system to ensure all the zones get used. Maybe add additional incentives to key through the zones through extra abilities or an item that powers up.

This should relieve congestion for a good time. Once players start massing in the top zone, just allow multiple copies of that zone to be opened. Also, maybe put a time limit on how long you can be in the top zone for at a time, with lock outs.

I see what you did there. Haha

[Alanus]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not even sure if RMT was classic allowed in our era

If I remember right, it was technically against the rules but not enforced at all. But RMTing and eBaying (as it was called then) was highly frowned upon

[Jimjam]

I like the idea of simulated patch day. Could have the server come down for 6 hours once a weeks so we can do our laundry, eat a proper meal and get uninterrupted sleep for a few hours.

The current system of not washing clothes for months at a time is unhygienic and unclassic tbh.

[stormlord]

Here's the LoS link from Internet Archive--there's just 1 save:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090608...ite/arc35.html

[stront]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like the idea of simulated patch day. Could have the server come down for 6 hours once a weeks so we can do our laundry, eat a proper meal and get uninterrupted sleep for a few hours.

The current system of not washing clothes for months at a time is unhygienic and unclassic tbh.

^^

[nyclin]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not classic! Oh wait, it's the exact opposite ... why does is this the only thing on the server that we're not trying to be classic about?

some browsing of the bug forum will quickly show you that changes which are confirmed classic, but might benefit players are ignored in lieu of vaguely sourced, questionably-classic changes that make the game harder. for example, we now have non-classic sneak pulling because Lazie spent 5+ pages posting unsourced anecdotal stories about it.

[skwayb]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Still blows my mind that jeff kaplan (overwatch) = tigole

This fuckin' nerd got a career out of being a EQ jerk!

Same thing the Furor Planedefiler.... Works at Blizzard.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I honestly don't think instances ruin much as far as interaction goes.

I think what ruins interaction is when games include a grouping/matchmaking system and instant portals to instances, that's when you lose the communication aspects in the MMO.

As long as there's no instant grouping/matchmaking system or instant portals that make instances easy to access, you still have people needing ports to places, and you still force people to have to create their own groups to succeed in the instances.

I don't remember wow having some intense sense of community back before you could find groups and/or teleport to dungeons from anywhere.


I feel like it's abundantly clear that instancing kills community (and sense of community). Without instancing, players run into each other all the time in dungeons, in chat channels, at camps. You see people who aren't your friends or guildies, other guild groups, other guild raids. You run into people higher level than you, lower level than you, more hardcore than you, more casual than you. For better or worse, you have to deal with them. It behooves players to play nice, and most people understand that and prefer cooperation (or at least civility) because of it. It makes the whole game play out differently ... finding guilds, claiming camps, raiding, buying and selling items, leveling up (for both alts and new players), etc.

Everything feels contrived in instanced games. It's like FPS games or MOBAs compared to heavily modded, multi-player (but not MMO) RPGs. Communities in general are shit in the former, and imo it's because there's no penalty for being toxic and no reward for cooperating outside of your clan, no exposure to others in a natural setting so that people act like actual human beings through their avatars instead of like screeching autists. Communities in the latter are generally awesome because they're just the opposite; you generally need to not be a pariah or there's little point in that sort of a game.


Your mention of instant teleports to instances is a separate issue I think, but still an important one. Limited mobility in EQ led to much of the same things that non-instancing did. You ran into a wide variety of people in your travels, and you generally had reasons to be a well-balanced person in your dealings with those folks. People grumbled about luclin a bit because it got rid of this. People grumbled about POP a lot because it absolutely destroyed it.

Modern MMOs are loaded with fast mounts, flightpaths, teleportation, home points, etc. Wow didn't start off with a TON of it... but 60% mounts at 40 were about like giving every level 35 character in classic EQ jboots... and 100% mounts at 60 were about like giving every level 50 in classic EQ selo's. Plus wow had flightpaths! It was practically POP-level transportation right from the beginning, lessening contact between players in the name of convenience and less-delayed (though not yet instant) gratification.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't remember wow having some intense sense of community back before you could find groups and/or teleport to dungeons from anywhere.


I feel like it's abundantly clear that instancing kills community (and sense of community). Without instancing, players run into each other all the time in dungeons, in chat channels, at camps. You see people who aren't your friends or guildies, other guild groups, other guild raids. You run into people higher level than you, lower level than you, more hardcore than you, more casual than you. For better or worse, you have to deal with them. It behooves players to play nice, and most people understand that and prefer cooperation (or at least civility) because of it. It makes the whole game play out differently ... finding guilds, claiming camps, raiding, buying and selling items, leveling up (for both alts and new players), etc.

Everything feels contrived in instanced games. It's like FPS games or MOBAs compared to heavily modded, multi-player (but not MMO) RPGs. Communities in general are shit in the former, and imo it's because there's no penalty for being toxic and no reward for cooperating outside of your clan, no exposure to others in a natural setting so that people act like actual human beings through their avatars instead of like screeching autists. Communities in the latter are generally awesome because they're just the opposite; you generally need to not be a pariah or there's little point in that sort of a game.


Your mention of instant teleports to instances is a separate issue I think, but still an important one. Limited mobility in EQ led to much of the same things that non-instancing did. You ran into a wide variety of people in your travels, and you generally had reasons to be a well-balanced person in your dealings with those folks. People grumbled about luclin a bit because it got rid of this. People grumbled about POP a lot because it absolutely destroyed it.

Modern MMOs are loaded with fast mounts, flightpaths, teleportation, home points, etc. Wow didn't start off with a TON of it... but 60% mounts at 40 were about like giving every level 35 character in classic EQ jboots... and 100% mounts at 60 were about like giving every level 50 in classic EQ selo's. Plus wow had flightpaths! It was practically POP-level transportation right from the beginning, lessening contact between players in the name of convenience and less-delayed (though not yet instant) gratification.

I drew my conclusion from modern games like SWTOR which heavily relies on group finder and matchmaking for warzones and flashpoints (dungeons). I suppose WOW could be included too, at least the most modern version of it anyway.

I see your point, but I don't think many players are bumping into eachother in raid zones where guilds mobilize to kill dragons on p99, let alone are these zones meeting grounds for straggling adventurers.

Sorry, I just don't agree that instances kill communities on MMOs.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by nyclin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

some browsing of the bug forum will quickly show you that changes which are confirmed classic, but might benefit players are ignored in lieu of vaguely sourced, questionably-classic changes that make the game harder. for example, we now have non-classic sneak pulling because Lazie spent 5+ pages posting unsourced anecdotal stories about it.

I honestly don't believe the devs think "I could work on this bug or that bug, but this one would make players happy so fuck it I'll work on the other one" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I'm sure they have considerations that we don't even think of, like wanting to work on parts of the codebase they're familiar with, or wanting to avoid working on parts that are written poorly, and this makes them work on bugs we care less about before ones we do care about.

What I meant was just that for everything else non-classic they have a rational reason (maybe not one everyone agrees with, but still a reason). Boats go the "wrong" way here because Verant couldn't tell East from West. Boats levitate you because it was the only way the devs could avoid tons of "falling off boat" issues. AoEs are un-classically limited to 25 because slow connection speeds gave a similar limit back in the day (and because not having limits created tons of petitions). And so on.

Same thing with resets: there must be some logic as to why they don't do resets here, beyond just "they hate us", and I'm genuinely curious whether anyone knows what it is.