Shaman or enchanter

[loramin]

Maybe I was splitting hairs; honestly I think we're agreeing with each more than disagreeing.

On that note I think we can both agree that, whatever the best race may be, it's not that much better than the next best race (so play what you want and only go Ogre if you want the most min/maxed option or you like Ogres).

Originally Posted by brecon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When soloing cliff golems you should never be at risk of a single stun killing you.

The standard example raised (both back then and now) is soloing a Western Wastes dragon, as that's often considered the pinnacle of Shaman soloing difficulty. When you're soloing WW dragons FSI is not meaningless, though a BSH is [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Hitmonkey]

Not to be negative but see a lot of scrub shamans giving opinions that were probably better off in post velious in this thread.

If you want to go balls deep on a tightly packed area for that named and cruise from 1-50's while having fun you pick TROLL

Troll regen- torpor you say? Your not getting that till almost the end of your grinding, in the mean time troll shamans are passing you from day 1 because downtime..

Troll slam - getting burned down by a casting mob? can joust slam/interrupt casting rooted mobs (ogres get this too of coarse) and used this from 1-60 along with the fact you can do the rogue BS trick with slam.

Troll inny snare necklace- makes things highly risky/impossible for other shamans a done deal for troll root didn't stick and getting your face peeled? Add? Shoulder to shoulder with mobs like today and I can't afford a runner? Along with the fact people don't think about how much time & mana troll shamans saved on the zillions of mobs that turned and were beat down instead of rooted and fighting. There was a reason shamans were never giving a snare.

Post vel when mobs really started getting stuns, sure ogre is better but it still doesn't stop spell stuns which are the longest and you're getting torpor quicker with a troll because your leveling faster and in stops other guys can't do. Just my 2 cents.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As for armor, I don't know the details of the Iksar bonus or how much it matters at level 60. All I know is that smarter people than me have done the math, and they didn't consider it good enough to rank Iksar #2 let alone #1.

For WW dragons the ideal choice is the "master (Shaman) race", ie. the race I ranked #1, ie. the one with FSI, ie. the race you've started this whole argument about, ie. Ogre.

Thank you for enlightening Thomas with true wisdom and being completely objective when making your points Loramin.

Anyone that says Ogres are not the master race for shamans simply are ignorant or living in denial. Not sure which one it is for Thomas.

Essentially an Iksar is a gimped troll when you compare both regen races for the shaman class. There's absolutely no reason to pick the Iksar over a troll unless the player simply finds them more appealing aesthetically.

Trolls get slam, iksar do not. Trolls can use JB clickies, Iksar cannot.

These reasons clearly leave a min/max player with two choices for shaman when picking a race, that being ogre first and troll second.

FSI is hands down the most useful racial attribute for shamans in the game, placing ogres as the number one choice for race for shamans. Trolls are second.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thank you for enlightening Thomas with true wisdom and being completely objective when making your points Loramin.

Anyone that says Ogres are not the master race for shamans simply are ignorant or living in denial. Not sure which one it is for Thomas.

Essentially an Iksar is a gimped troll when you compare both regen races for the shaman class. There's absolutely no reason to pick the Iksar over a troll unless the player simply finds them more appealing aesthetically.

Trolls get slam, iksar do not. Trolls can use JB clickies, Iksar cannot.

These reasons clearly leave a min/max player with two choices for shaman when picking a race, that being ogre first and troll second.

FSI is hands down the most useful racial attribute for shamans in the game, placing ogres as the number one choice for race for shamans. Trolls are second.

You seriously cannot read, can you? Someone a lot smarter than your or loramin has already commented on this:

Originally Posted by brecon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think there's a single true min-maxer that disagrees that a fully geared 60 shaman with all spells and optimal Velious gear is going to be an Ogre. The only other defensible race is Iksar. The main fight is how much 'better' that really makes them.

I'd listen to this guy. He's probably got a level 60 that's wearing better gear than Large Ringmail Pants. Troll comes in as the third best race. Why? Because Jaundiced Bone items suck, and Iksar AC is more important.

Originally Posted by brecon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've done the math. At 60, assuming full spells, there are zero times when you should click a JBB unless it is to finish a runner or pull. Even then I prefer to pull with malo. With the same time as it takes to cast a JBB, you can torp/canni and get mana for a more efficient dot. You can find it somewhere in my history.

This is the gist of it: JBB is not good. It's just not. It's an overrated, overhyped vanity item that you could outpace by using cannibalize and a real nuke. Same goes for the snare necklace. You've obviously never used either one.

Honestly, if you put half the effort into leveling your character that you spent defending your incoherent nonsense on the forums, then you might have a level 46 character by now.

[Amyas]

Shaman SoW, Heals, Slow, root, good dots, haste, amazing buffs.

Enc crack, CC, haste.

[justin84]

Due to the jerk face internet guy not coming yesterday, I'm still without the entergy(as my 4 year old calls it). I have decided to go dark elf enchanter and troll shaman. I think the shaman will be better to start with since I will get sow at 9 and have the higher str for carrying all of my fat loot. If it wasn't my first character I would go ogre but the extra regen should help me out. I prefer the troll over the iksar for the str/star and prefer evil (troll/dark elf/ogre) rather than hated (iksar).
I really wanted to go enchanter first but doing without sow and the str to carry loot and not being able to heal just doesn't seem worth it as a first character here.
Though I am not on the character select screen yet either. So who knows how that will go.

Edit: also, what does a jbb and fungi go for on the server ? Didn't know if they were obtainable by 50. Thanks.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by justin84 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Due to the jerk face internet guy not coming yesterday, I'm still without the entergy(as my 4 year old calls it). I have decided to go dark elf enchanter and troll shaman. I think the shaman will be better to start with since I will get sow at 9 and have the higher str for carrying all of my fat loot. If it wasn't my first character I would go ogre but the extra regen should help me out. I prefer the troll over the iksar for the str/star and prefer evil (troll/dark elf/ogre) rather than hated (iksar).
I really wanted to go enchanter first but doing without sow and the str to carry loot and not being able to heal just doesn't seem worth it as a first character here.
Though I am not on the character select screen yet either. So who knows how that will go.

Edit: also, what does a jbb and fungi go for on the server ? Didn't know if they were obtainable by 50. Thanks.

You realize the regen doesn't really become significant till 51+ right? But troll is fine race. Anything other than iksar tbh.

FSI > regen though.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by justin84 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have decided to go dark elf enchanter and troll shaman. I think the shaman will be better to start with since I will get sow at 9 and have the higher str for carrying all of my fat loot. If it wasn't my first character I would go ogre but the extra regen should help me out. I prefer the troll over the iksar for the str/star and prefer evil (troll/dark elf/ogre) rather than hated (iksar).

This makes me feel like you took all the right lessons (and none of the wrong ones) from this thread [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by justin84 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

also, what does a jbb and fungi go for on the server ?

There are actually three ways you can check this yourself, without even logging in to the game. All three rely on players uploading logs of their time in EC:

1. the wiki (wiki.project1999.com) - every item has a price history listed
2. AHungry's tracker (http://ahungry.com/eqauctions) - best data/worst UI
3. p99tunnel (p99tunnel.com) - best UI/worst data

Personally I paid 42k for a fungi a few months ago and I've seen JBBs for about 13k.

Originally Posted by justin84 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Didn't know if they were obtainable by 50.

If a shaman saves all their plat up to 45 there's a very good chance they'll be able to afford a JBB outright, and if not they should be able to earn the difference without spending a ton of time farming. The fungi on the other hand will probably be too expensive for any sub-50 character, or at least not without spending a crazy amount of time farming plat.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the gist of it: JBB is not good. It's just not. It's an overrated, overhyped vanity item that you could outpace by using cannibalize and a real nuke. Same goes for the snare necklace. You've obviously never used either one.

Saying that an 8 second 263dd free mana clicky nuke is a "overhyped vanity item" only shows you have no idea what vanity means, or how useful a free clicky nuke is.

I won't break it down to you how or why because you lack the intellect to grasp the concept obviously.

I personally have used both the snare necklace on my human inny cleric, and I used the JBB on my ogre shaman, so I have experience with both. My shaman is 55 lvl now, and I still use the JBB and have basically zero downtime due to that item.

Proclaiming the JBB is useless might be true if you never use it, or don't know how to use it when leveling or farming stuff. I don't know how that's even possible...

Honestly it's not complicated or hard to understand how or why the clicky is useful. You are sounding very obtuse by saying the JBB is useless and a vanity item. lol.

Same goes for the snare necklace, the necklace can be very useful and really is a nice little item to have available. Is it gamebreaking? No. Is it nice to have versus not having? Absolutely!

You can justify the shortcomings of the iksar all you want, but really the only reason to pick an iksar for shaman is if you have a lizard fetish or love gimpy, retarded looking combat animations.

Trolls regen the same as iksar, get slam, and can use jaundiced clicky armors which can prove to be useful and are simply nice to have available.

He chose troll which is far better a choice than iksar, so good for him. He'd be better picking an ogre but second best race for shaman is better than next to worst. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Samoht]

Like I said, someone smarter than you has already commented on that, ultimately dispelling all of your myths and misconceptions. Troll is still second worse choice. We all read your ogre warrior thread, so we know how delusional you are (warriors cannot channel).