Necromancers "are terrible in groups"

[Jimjam]

Yea, if you enjoy actually playing the game, especially the potentially dynamic game play of xp grouping, slower xp is arguably a good thing, since you get to do more xp grouping before you shelf that toon!

Maybe I am being a little hyperbolic or absurd.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Obviously every camp/zone/group is different but generally speaking necros should be HoT'ing the tank/puller to take the strain off the healer, taking on the role of mana battery while in skellie form...and the nukes should be lifetaps to replace lost health, which are better anyway because they're less resisty.

Sitting there in your robe, sending the pet in 5-10 seconds after the pull comes in, then looking back at Netflix...is the reason necros don't get groups.

Precisely. In a fast paced group - dotting is terribly inefficient. Our one stronger/fast poison dot also has huge aggro - so casting early is hardly worth it. Mana/time is best spent throwing around heals, tapping back health lost (call me lazy but I actually just tap heal over time to cover my losses as constantly dispelling the recourse only to miss it and strip something useful is just tedious), nuking, interrupting, rooting, mezzing and throwing extra mana to any who need it.

Having said that, I've been playing the group game most recently for a solid 2 levels and over time the damn summoned pet by itself still puts out more damage than most level-appropriate melee. To put it into perspective my epic 57 monk tends to average around 55dps sustained over long stretches with epic/SoS (60-70 with great enchanter haste and shaman buffs). Necro pet with self haste alone and a smart tank presenting the mobs arse to my pet hovers at 45-50 - add another 5-10 dps with a strength buff and mage mask.

Point is - for every group I've been in (excluding a charmed enchanter pet - I can do that just as easily) from barely 53 to halfway through 55, that damn pet of mine deals either 1st or a close 2nd by itself in total damage dealt over time and average dps.

Magician and Necro pets from the mid 40s to mid 50s hold their own in the damage output category. They're basically another member of the group and anything else the owner does is icing on the cake. For mages that's a great DS and wizard_lite nuking. For necros ... that's a whole lot of potential extra with, at worst, simply nuking at a 2 to 2.3 rate of damage return on mana spent (14 dps with lich assuming you're literally always in battle).

[Spyder73]

Can confirm that necromancer is the Master Class.

Only people who don't love necromancers are the same people who think only a group of rogues are acceptable DPS.

[gizmo]

Originally Posted by bum3 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wonder if it is the same coolaid that makes this influx of warriors who only want to low hp dmg deal. Was shocked to see that it was even a thing.

Love /duel our warrior. It's some tasty kool aid. Also necros can be great duo partners for hybrids imo.

[articnv]

Originally Posted by Feanol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They can mezz, they can off-tank with pets, they can heal, they can heal themselves, they can root, they can charm, they can supply manna, they can split pull undead, they can ressurect, they can...

Necromancers are somehow simultaneously the best groupmate and the best solo'er far as I can tell.

Disclaimer: I have never played a Necro and have zero personal bias.

we can also split pull with mez root then fd - cears the agro from root and mez [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Teako]

I would rather have consistent safe DPS in every single party in every single zone at any level bracket than a pseudo enchanter with less CC options for when a pet breaks and hulks you. Or a lazy pet attack shadowbond bot on mobs who don't live longer than 15 seconds.

You've made the argument for how LEET STATUSZ your Necro was every single day in KC ooc chat for almost 3 weeks straight now. I was one of the people routinely declining your Necro because you're entitled and lazy. You've been constantly crapping on people to take your poorly geared Necro alt over a monk in groups that don't need or want necros. I watched you leave an entire infernus party over them not desiring to pick up another monk and you swap to Necro at hands. Then you proceeded to flame and cuss them out in OOC. Classy.

Nobody owes your Necro anything. Any group at any time for any reason can say no and that's the end of it. Your abuse and harassment of groups in KC is ridiculous. The way you attempt to join parties on one character and convince them your alt Necro is just SO FRIGGIN GOOD is also ridiculous.

Necro is not a class that benefits well in a fast paced environment like KC. You're not Mana efficient on the mobs, you can't CC over half of them except root, your health transfer is mediocre, and taking on a hasted charmed pet is a huge liability in a 5man unless people babysit you. So you either have 3 people babysitting one bootleg Necro, or a summoned pet and mediocre DPS. Either way I'd rather take an actual DPS and save the trouble.

That, and you are remarkably abusive and entitled about what you feel your Necro is "owed" by groups and the server. Spoiler: it's nothing.

[welly321]

I've done numerous charm groups in both KC and HS with necros. I play an enchanter. I welcome any necro into these groups as our pets destroy everything and their patch heals really help the cleric save mana. Like any class, their are good necros and bad necros but from my experience they are far from "Terrible in groups".

[Teako]

Some excerpts:

[Fri Mar 24 15:13:16 2017] Scarlete tells the group, 'NO NECRO [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]' (two days later referencing your LFG spam)
[Wed Mar 22 11:52:43 2017] Daegun says out of character, '55 necro lfg -- backstab pet + heals + twitches + cc + + charm + whatever' (you)
[Wed Mar 22 11:26:26 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'there is no way a necro pet does the same dps as you' - talking to our epic 55 rogue
[Wed Mar 22 11:25:29 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'he just told me, hes necro pet does 5dps less than you cactus' (you abusing random people in tells over not inviting your necro)
[Wed Mar 22 11:23:42 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'heh hes talking to me, trying to convince me how good necro are in groups'
[Wed Mar 22 11:19:30 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'not sure what he wanted to do wtih his necro, we needed a puller
[Wed Mar 22 11:18:51 2017] You tell your party, 'guy was clearly going to bail the second we made it clear we didn't want his necro he wanted to swap to. nbd, lots of pullers'
[Wed Mar 22 11:18:31 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'and his necros play no valid role in this group'
[Wed Mar 22 11:13:11 2017] Jocky tells the group, 'necro would be my last choice for dps in a group, not being an ass or anything'

There's a lot more, but you get the point. They very politely declined your necro, and you continued trying to ram it down their throat as if it was the best thing since the sun. You joined them with the intention of trying to make them carry your necro when another puller became available and they declined outright so you left.. then proceeded to cuss people out in /ooc over being "necro hating noobs"

Don't come to the forums like you're some glimmering white knight of necro-group-salvation.. you're an entitled child who cusses people out that don't want to group with him.

[Nixtar]

Originally Posted by Teako [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would rather have consistent safe DPS in every single party in every single zone at any level bracket than a pseudo enchanter with less CC options for when a pet breaks and hulks you. Or a lazy pet attack shadowbond bot on mobs who don't live longer than 15 seconds.

Necro is not a class that benefits well in a fast paced environment like KC. You're not Mana efficient on the mobs, you can't CC over half of them except root, your health transfer is mediocre, and taking on a hasted charmed pet is a huge liability in a 5man unless people babysit you. So you either have 3 people babysitting one bootleg Necro, or a summoned pet and mediocre DPS. Either way I'd rather take an actual DPS and save the trouble.

Putting that unpleasant sounding experience aside.

A necromancer adds a lot more than just DPS to a group. You mention fast pace, well, a necromancer can turn a druid into a proper healer, make a shaman afford slows and heal, constantly keep HoTs up and STILL have mana for CC.

Speaking from a Paladin perspective, it was pretty awesome how I always seemed to have mana over for stuns. As a result I owned aggro. Took a lot less damage, and could even afford some backup heals when things got messy. I believe the healer started nuking at some point.

When it comes to "lazy" necromancers, I've found simply asking for X or Y works wonders. For instance, "Twitch when I announce X amount of mana" or "could you keep your HoT running on the shaman"<-- Which is more or less a twitch for shamans(and we all know shamans just LOVE to canni dance!). Most of the time, the so-called laziness is more out of ignorance than malice or stupidity. Which probably stems from being used to going solo.

Likewise, if you are a necro with a rogue pet, all you need to to is /tell tank "I got a rogue pet, could you try and keep the mobs facing way from X." It isn't a big ask and he's probably been asked that by 239843242 rogues before in order to make getting into BS position more fluid.

[Skinned]

As a shaman I can be the only priest in the group, slows and heals, with necro support, keep people alive quite easily, and the necro is still contributing to DPS substantially.

Playing a nec effectively in a group requires really knowing the class and what it is capable of. The effects aren't obvious really to someone who doesn't know what to look for...the class is more subtle...damage ticks away and doesn't drop drastically like a wizard DPS....there is less downtown because the necro is feeding the shaman mana, who is being fed HPs with regeneration buffs....every now and then when adds get intense a mez comes off...does back up healing to casters who are missing 20% of their hit points so you don't have to while you're babysitting the melees. Then if you wipe they can even survive, drag out your corpses, and rez you if they are so inclined. They have an impressive tool set but it isn't obvious to people who don't know what to look for in a good necromancer in a group.