Necromancers "are terrible in groups"

[Sancta]

Honestly he probably meant "compared to the other classes for a group that wants to maximize exp".

Unless the necro is charming, it is bottom tier for a group that wants to maximize exp per hour. But in that same vein so is bard/rng/war/pal/sk/dru/wiz/clr. Are those classes useless? Not at all, you can still make a decent exp group with bottom tier exp per hour classes and the exp would be fine. (As fine as a group with 5+ can be, which is low exp per hour group since 5+ is awful exp and is for funsies anyway)

To put it another way, if you were duoing say monk/sham, what third class would you want to max exp? There would be a tier list that would go something like:

1) Chanter [has to charm] / Necro [has to charm]
2) Rogue
3) doesn't matter b/c it will only suck up the exp and we'll be making less per hour

Same with Enc/Clr, which 3rd would you want to max exp? Prolly only another chanter/necro charming for dps, anything else will lower your rate. You can extrapolate this idea to 3mans+.

If you're not trying to maximize exp per hour, go nuts, invite 6 people of any class, and socialize your little heart out.

[Teppler]

^wrong

Necro doesn't even need charm to be amazingly effective. It just puts them over the top even more.

They have too many tools in their disposal not to be incredibly effective in almost any group make up.

Like your example of rogue and sham duo and comparing necro to chanter. Necro doesn't need to charm. It can throw out snare and fear and let the rogue and sham go to work and let the rogue backstab. That's actually a really really strong trio that can handle multiple mobs at once. If the necro is using fear then the sham won't really need to heal or use a big mana slow so it can also focus on maximizing dps. In general this is something people miss about necro a. They do so much that they tend to also free up other classes to dps more too.

In fact if you have a chanter summoning and tanking in this equation, the rouge won't even be utilizing backstab.

[zanderklocke]

Every class is awesome in the hands of a good player.

[Troxx]

Especially after the monk pulling nerf I can think of several classes (cc/lull/support) that would dramatically increase the efficiency, safety, and xp gains of the Classic monk/shaman duo. Bonus points go to the classes that fill this role and provide meaningful dps to boot.

This, of course, assumes you're not hunting in stupidly boring or trivial locations.

[Vexenu]

The problem is that maximizing the potential of a Necro requires a combination of player skill, concentration and APM (actions per minute aka mouse clicking and button pressing) eclipsed only by Bards. Keeping your heals up on the tank alone and dispelling the recourse requires more APM that half the classes in the game, to say nothing of simultaneously managing a charm pet, CCing, pumping mana, throwing in nukes or DoTs when appropriate and always managing your own health/mana ratio. Most players simply cannot or will not (laziness) sustain that high level of play for long stretches of time. Much easier to fear kite or charm solo, or if grouping to just mail it in with lazy heals and a summoned pet.

So most people simply haven't ever grouped with a really good Necro and don't know what they're capable of in the hands of a good player. Thus the stereotype of Necros being exclusively a solo class persists.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I was in a silly group at disco once, and we had 3 -- yes, THREE -- necros.

It was not the best group, but there was nothing wrong with it and we managed to keep d1 and the golem room cleared.

I think challenging your expectations is a great way to keep eq fun. Three necros was extreme, but the necros all cooperated well (always key when doing unusual groups imo) and it was certainly a change of pace!

In fact, it was kind of funny how stuff *slowly* died. No fast kills, but once we got our pace down, it was rock steady.

I am not sure there is any group that is simply impossible in eq, within a handful of hard limits.

[Lowako]

anyone who thinks necromancers are bad in groups is probably horrible at everquest and literally worse than an empty slot. even if a necromancer did nothing but maintain a fully geared charmed pet in an undead zone they would be worth 2 good rogues or 4 shitty rogues worth of DPS. I'm pretty sure proper charmed pets vs undead are capable of pushing 200dps. that doesn't even factor in the healing, twitching, crowd control etc. If you find a non-garbage necromancer who can maintain a charmed pet while doing other things you should literally be begging them to join your group.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is that maximizing the potential of a Necro requires a combination of player skill, concentration and APM (actions per minute aka mouse clicking and button pressing) eclipsed only by Bards. Keeping your heals up on the tank alone and dispelling the recourse requires more APM that half the classes in the game, to say nothing of simultaneously managing a charm pet, CCing, pumping mana, throwing in nukes or DoTs when appropriate and always managing your own health/mana ratio. Most players simply cannot or will not (laziness) sustain that high level of play for long stretches of time. Much easier to fear kite or charm solo, or if grouping to just mail it in with lazy heals and a summoned pet.

So most people simply haven't ever grouped with a really good Necro and don't know what they're capable of in the hands of a good player. Thus the stereotype of Necros being exclusively a solo class persists.

Reverse charming as a necro will be the fastest class to reach 60 unless you use bard kiting or aoe chardok if that's still a thing.

Whenever I'd group as a higher level necro it would be for fun or loot. Exp is too good solo for grouping for exp to be a serious viable option.

But yeah a great group necro is the same activity as a great bard or shaman. Constant button pressing and managing things.

[Sancta]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^wrong

Necro doesn't even need charm to be amazingly effective. It just puts them over the top even more.

They have too many tools in their disposal not to be incredibly effective in almost any group make up.

Like your example of rogue and sham duo and comparing necro to chanter. Necro doesn't need to charm. It can throw out snare and fear and let the rogue and sham go to work and let the rogue backstab. That's actually a really really strong trio that can handle multiple mobs at once. If the necro is using fear then the sham won't really need to heal or use a big mana slow so it can also focus on maximizing dps. In general this is something people miss about necro a. They do so much that they tend to also free up other classes to dps more too.

In fact if you have a chanter summoning and tanking in this equation, the rouge won't even be utilizing backstab.

Pretty sure you missed the entire point but that's aight.

If the goal is max exp per hour, as in getting the most exp you possibly can then refer to previous post, certain classes/comps are at the bottom of the totem pole in that regard.

If the goal of the group is to have fun+exp you can literally play any class you want, it will all be effective, and you can think of cool ways to kill mobs, and the exp will be fine.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by feanan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's because the number of lazy and/or shitty necros is way greater than people like yourself.

Same as the bard just playing regen and meleeing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It isn't' until you see a well played necro/bard by someone who isn't lazy that you realize how incredible they are.

Nailed it ^^