@Sirken "a fair and legitimate chance at that target"

[wrighter00]

This has all really just become one big argument over who KSed who's large rat back in the newbie zone that one time.

Gran Turismo, Need for Speed, Rush, Mario Kart. These are all great racing games that I'm not sure why some of you aren't playing instead. If this is where open world PvE MMORPGs have gone, g effin' g.

We haven't been to the Golems in like a month and since we got some SKs/Necros decked out. It's like the one thing though, within the server rules, where we can farm some DKP, get some loot and high value plat items, avoid the race lines, and have some fun. Just stay away please. I'm, personally, not playing Frogger with some of you every week to see who gets raid targets.

I'm sorry we can kill all your raid targets too, and just want to do it for fun sometimes. We have some nerve asking people to share. <3

[Maner]

Originally Posted by Phantasm [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What are you looking for here Maner ? An apology ? Infernus gave a mob a shot, realized they were in over their heads and an hour passed with them not securing the mob. CSG got the fresh FTE and said hey infernus we'll show you some things on how we do this mob. Whats wrong with this? You're making mountains out of molehills

an apology for what? I was pointing out the kind of precedence this sets. Literally any guild can run for an FTE knowing they wont be able to kill the target and after securing an FTE search the market for one of the raid groups willing to kill it with them. Infernus got screwed by the loot rules CSG uses but im sure a more favorable agreement can be found out there.

The issue i have a problem with is a group securing FTE and failing then being able to get onto the logs for the next entity that attempts the target. That seems completely against the spirit of the rules.

[Phantasm]

They gave it their best shot, ultimately not resulting in a kill. If another guild wants to offer a guild that failed already a shot at success who are you to say otherwise ? Thats how you learn man, not by having neckbeards breathing down your neck while they count out your stopwatch. THey were offered an opportunity to kill a mob that they failed on. The fact they got no loot is beside the point. THey gained experience and vital time on target, perhaps enabling them success in the future.

[Sallan]

Originally Posted by Phantasm [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What are you looking for here Maner ? An apology ? Infernus gave a mob a shot, realized they were in over their heads and an hour passed with them not securing the mob. CSG got the fresh FTE and said hey infernus we'll show you some things on how we do this mob. Whats wrong with this? You're making mountains out of molehills

We've killed feshlak and other ntov mobs so we are well capable. Being light on numbers didn't help so we needed some assistance. Going past the hour wasn't intended (or expected from my view), but shit happens and then it finally executed.

Not going to comment further on this thread

[Tasslehofp99]

This thread needs to be cleansed with fire.

[Skew]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Literally any guild can run for an FTE knowing they wont be able to kill the target and after securing an FTE search the market for one of the raid groups willing to kill it with them. That seems completely against the spirit of the rules.

Why? Seems fine. Any guild that helps on that FTE is locked out until the target is dead or a wipe or 1 hour. Cant really exploit that system for FTEing multiple targets.
If you make a bunch of smaller guilds you just make more stress over sharing pixels. So this really isnt a big deal. Not seeing where the problem is in "selling FTEs"

If a guild with 5 people in you'd never heard of got a Doze FTE and then said "Aftermath would you like to team up with us on this , we just want 1 tear you take the rest" or w/e loot deal was struck , you'd jump at the chance and why not?
Small guild are locked into Doze and youre locked into Doze.

[bktroost]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Problem is when a guild gets FTE and obviously can't kill it and then goes past their hour. The mob becomes FFA and then when CSG shows up and claim they got a new FTE the original guild should not be allowed onto the agro table. Not to mention the fact that said dragon hadn't even been up long enough to go to ffa before CSG claimed they got a new FTE. But instead CSG then helped infernus kill the dragon. It's the same shit as some guild who was already locked into a FTE, when say rustle gets statue, from being unable to assist until aow. Basically infernus took a FTE they couldn't kill and delayed an hour so CSG could show up and kill it for them. Seems pretty bullshit

according to our rules can you define for me where the infraction occurs if, say, infernus were trying to legitimately kill the dragon and do the pull for 5 hours and successfully got the FTE after the hour was up each time?

This of course didn't happen, but you seem to be predicating your response based on some rule i must not be familiar with.

[bktroost]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Infernus got screwed by the loot rules CSG uses but im sure a more favorable agreement can be found out there.

No they won't. Because precisely what happened would happen again. they would wait out their timer and another guild would get the FTE.

CSG got the FTE after them and didn't need infernus to kill it at that point. It was, by rights, entirely CSGs because of our refte. We then included them in our alliance for that kill like we do for all three of our guilds. Standard contract.


So why would AM ever help Infernus kill it when they could just put some monks there to refte and kill it solo? Or AW? Or rustle?

Your scenario won't ever happen. The only reason it did happen here is because CSG wanted to not leapfrog Infernus and included them on our reFTE because we don't do the highly competitive thing... even though, legally, there is nothing wrong with it.

[Maner]

Originally Posted by bktroost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

according to our rules can you define for me where the infraction occurs if, say, infernus were trying to legitimately kill the dragon and do the pull for 5 hours and successfully got the FTE after the hour was up each time?

This of course didn't happen, but you seem to be predicating your response based on some rule i must not be familiar with.

I never said it was a current rule. IMO if you FTE and either wipe or go over your hour and another guild gets the following FTE, you should not be allowed to help. Furthermore the same guild should not be allowed to get a 2nd FTE back to back on the same mob. Otherwise you could use it as a way to stall targets or hold FTEs for other guilds while they are killing something else. Say one guild is killing something in kael so all their runners log onto alt guilds so they can FTE anything that spawns and stall it for an hour. Are you going to keep track of all the alts people have? or are the GMs going to run IP checks to see if they have alts in other guilds?

[bktroost]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never said it was a current rule. IMO if you FTE and either wipe or go over your hour and another guild gets the following FTE, you should not be allowed to help. Furthermore the same guild should not be allowed to get a 2nd FTE back to back on the same mob. Otherwise you could use it as a way to stall targets or hold FTEs for other guilds while they are killing something else. Say one guild is killing something in kael so all their runners log onto alt guilds so they can FTE anything that spawns and stall it for an hour. Are you going to keep track of all the alts people have? or are the GMs going to run IP checks to see if they have alts in other guilds?

could you give an example of a high end guild using an alt guild like this? Or even two guilds specifically connected like this? Certainly we could do something if manipulation like these were occurring.