@Sirken "a fair and legitimate chance at that target"

[Gimp]

Originally Posted by paroxysmal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Willing to work with us? AM wanted ffa and they got what they wanted. They would have found a reason eventually to get what they wanted. They went from 12 mobs last agreement to 25 mobs this agreement (proposed), what would it be in the future? 40? all of them? When is it enough?

You may get CSG and Rustle to bend over and take whatever lessening scraps they can get each time. We will just choose to sit it out and let the server see how greedy AM continues to be. You've lost all sympathy on my part in having to deal with AW on a weekly basis. You two deserve each other.

So, how many mobs did you get this cycle compared to how many were offered to you as part of the rotation?

As in real mobs, not Fright and Terror.

[Phantasm]

I dont think they are frustrated at the amount proposed this cycle, but the 'unfairness' of raiding competitively as a whole (lol).

Had either Fires/ Venerate operated as a raiding entity during Kunark their perspective would be different Im sure. Fires/Venerate need to step up and perform before they start strong arming any agreements.

[paroxysmal]

Originally Posted by Gimp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, how many mobs did you get this cycle compared to how many were offered to you as part of the rotation?

Nothing ever got finalized.

The proposed list from the previous agreement w/ am/rustle/csg/fv/infernus/anon/kittens/divinity to the last proposed one for this suspension period were vastly different.

AM went from a modest 12 or so picks to FFA, then relented to 25 mandatory unnegotiable picks.

As I have posted previously, it sets a bad precedent to unfairly balance this towards one guild when we are trying to work together.

I was willing to voluntarily step out of the arrangement altogether with f/v if we could get a fair shake for the other guilds attempting to participate, however, it doesn't appear there ever was a fair offering.

CSG countered the proposed agreement with more FFA(footrace) mobs out of the 25 or so that AM had mandated they were unwilling to compromise on, however, were unsuccessful with any negotiations.


On a positive note, we were successful with our Ring War and are now part of the Ring War rotation. Congrats F/V.

[paroxysmal]

Originally Posted by Phantasm [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dont think they are frustrated at the amount proposed this cycle, but the 'unfairness' of raiding competitively as a whole (lol).

Had either Fires/ Venerate operated as a raiding entity during Kunark their perspective would be different Im sure. Fires/Venerate need to step up and perform before they start strong arming any agreements.

probably so, I hear it was said that velious would fix the raid scene, but we can see that it has not, and it introduced how many more mobs/7 days?

[arsenalpow]

raid scene fixes have been proposed ad nauseam, there will be zero changes, you are wasting your time and energy

[Mendo]

Originally Posted by paroxysmal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

probably so, I hear it was said that velious would fix the raid scene, but we can see that it has not, and it introduced how many more mobs/7 days?

In the Kunark days you were unable to raid anything at all unless in IB/TMO until the class system. Velious has changed that. There are a ton of targets for guilds to raid. It sounds like you guys want the best in slot dragons and of course the power guilds don't want to give those up.

[paroxysmal]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

raid scene fixes have been proposed ad nauseam, there will be zero changes, you are wasting your time and energy

you are probably right, i just hope not.

[Nexii]

The only alternative to FTE racing that would work is quake pops instead of raid bosses popping on variance. But it's 'not classic' in the eyes of the staff (or at least the devs), so it's not likely.

My counterarguments are
1) This server has ~5-10x the endgame raiders that a classic server would have had. No classic server would have been this overpopulated at the endgame, Verant/Sony would have opened a new shard.
2) FTE racing rules from zoneline and yellow text were never a thing in classic.
3) Nor were GM-enforced one hour or one day mercy rules after an FTE.
4) Staff does quakes when they please anyhow.
5) Adding to this, many raid bosses drop much less loot than on classic. Thus further reducing the size of the pie.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by paroxysmal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

probably so, I hear it was said that velious would fix the raid scene, but we can see that it has not, and it introduced how many more mobs/7 days?

Comparatively Id say that Velious has created an avenue for casual guilds to experience high end content without immediate presence at a target, so thats a plus. Additionally, how many more guilds exist now than compared to Kunark era raiding? There may be more targets, but there are twice as many guilds wanting a seat at the table now

[Fasttimes]

Velious is way better then kunark. who wanted to coth duck a whole VS window or 3 premade groups cothing for trak for 30sec engages. you wouldnt compete back then. The mobilization was crazy fast then too. you can be quite lazy now with an hour to kill shit. Nothings perfect but racing is indefinitely better then 20 mages per wing like it use to be and definitely more casual friendly then camping at doubles and aary stairs and jav pulling with instant engages, try doing that casually.